Are you implying that you fight 2000 man armies with a 150 stack on realistic/challenging? lol
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- Thread starter Callum
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Are you implying that you fight 2000 man armies with a 150 stack on realistic/challenging? lol
Lol no, I was saying no one is stopping a 2000 doomstack on their own, so whether the player earns 10k denars a day or only 1k is immaterial to stopping 2000 man armies. Player income and certain factions getting stomped are independent of each other, so them nerfing workshop income from 800 a day to 300 a day won't affect Khuzait steamrolling over Sturgia. IMHO the nerfs to passive player income have generally been fine, and you can still afford a large high tier army relatively easy.
They're working on finding reasonable buffs for Sturgia (and Aserai), and tweaking a few numbers on workshops probably won't impede them from doing that and doesn't directly affect the problem in the meantime (IMO).
Oh lol yeah that makes more sense. I'd agree, I mostly start snowballing late-mid game primarily due to just selling ridiculous amounts of items from battles.
Haha yeah, loot is way more lucrative right now. I have a feeling they'll tone that down too eventually.
Nothing. It's got to do with losing my fiefs and that income though. I wouldn't be generating any income without workshops and caravans... and not being able to afford my own units wages and that of my clan members would put me in a game over position.
But I can raise 200 troops myself, and around 100 each from my 3 clan member parties. If I leave Sturgia, the remaining lords have zero chance to raise an army able to challenge or weaken them. Paying upkeep on all that and buying all the stuff I mentioned (food/items/upgrades) costs quite a bit.
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They want to gate access to top tier equipment, the ridiculous price scaling of equipment is a mechanism to do that. I don't like it personally because it undermines the suspension of disbelief about the realism of the economy.
An alternative is to gate the access via skill requirements. That has its own set of issues too, but at least you would then be able to get the gear of enemies you defeat instead of it magically vanishing 99% of the time to prevent the economy spontaneously combusting.
An alternative is to gate the access via skill requirements. That has its own set of issues too, but at least you would then be able to get the gear of enemies you defeat instead of it magically vanishing 99% of the time to prevent the economy spontaneously combusting.
Though their pricing difference is probably a bit of a stretch in many places, it's not as unrealistic as you might think. The true elite armor in medieval times could cost 20-100 times as much as "good" armor. Doing a quick Google https://armstreet.com/news/the-cost-of-plate-armor-in-modern-money
Quite right. To the extent we care about realism in games Bannerlord suffers from the same problem as most, which is that things which should be exceedingly rare are a lot more common than they would be in practice.
That's OK, it's a game and not every detail has to be realistic - the player getting rare stuff is part of the fantasy. But when the game attempts a semi-realistic economic simulation, compromises have to be made to keep the economy from blowing out. Balancing the fantasy of the game with the sustainability of its economic simulation is a tricky business.
The comparison would be a good point if higher tier armor was similarly effective to compare apples. Plate armor was useful because it did it’s job and didn’t allow cuts in CQC when it’s up to par. Best armor in the game still gets you killed against 6+ looters. Purely in performance, they’re distinct. Evidently, price doesn’t reflect its effectiveness in our case, but its level of scarcity in materials/output relative to buying power.
Obviously “steel” is present in the game, which means the lack of effectiveness means advancements in smithing are not comparable. If we consider the price of steel, it can hover around or likely below 100 denars. Thus, unless these are ridiculously tiny sticks of steel, the cost of materials relative to market value of these armors are low, meaning base materials are not particularly scarce. This makes sense since imperial cataphracts are decked out in lamellar plate and imperial scale armor. However, finding a settlement with denar reserves around 100k in my game is extraordinary, so “whoever” is selling this gear is artificially charging high prices to player entities.
If I could charge 3 peasants and not be expertly impaled to death by a pitchfork or shrug off a looters wooden hammer, I can see the reason for the high price. But with such ease of availability to NPCs while being unavailable to players, combined with its ineffectiveness, I’d have to agree on its unrealistic pricing
But that's not unrealistic pricing you're complaining about, it's other aspects. Yeah, I completely agree that rocks from looters should do no damage if you're wearing the best armor. But, I'd want that aspect fixed, not the pricing of the armor.
Yes, that’s why in the second paragraph I addressed pricing via materials. Then I appealed to both availability to imperial cataphracts and market capital. But instead of reiterating it, I’ll add more observations. The imperial elite cataphract is paid 21 denar as a daily wage (given the performance, sure). If we extend that to the some 100-ish day years in the game, it’s 2100-ish denars as an annual wage. The gear they wear is currently priced around 700k denars. If they went into debt with 0% interest to purchase the armor, thats about 333 years before they pay back the debt on the loan, and if you compound mortality risks... well let’s say whoever is paying for it is richer than faction leaders. Which means we must come to several conclusions—that the price charged for an imperial cataphract’s lamellar plate armor is either heavily subsidized, financed by multigenerational debt obligations (slavery with extra steps), or, more reasonably, our premise that the actual price of the armor set at 700k is false.
But if the premise being false is unacceptable, there are other alternative explanations that don’t have to do with materials or wages yet make it available. Namely, imperial village leaders may be secret armor producers or are loaded and pay for their children’s armor. Or perhaps most battle loot is being claimed by our troops to repay loans. Or even merchants are artificially charging high prices to players (in which case, why can’t I send an npc to buy the armor for me from this secret supplier?). Looking at these factors, I can only conclude it is unrealistic pricing
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I think wages boils down to wanting a fun game. Wages is not realistic at all because that's not how feudalism worked with elite troops. The elite troops were your nobles and vassals. You paid them by granting their families fiefs, not in daily wages.
The link you posted used wages to estimate armor pricing. That’s why I applied it to this situation
Can you add stat requirements for armor? Trading is busted as hell and very OP, made 2mil in maybe 10 hours of playtime of just trading.
This makes gear worthless, as it is very cheap compared to my revenue and I have no penalty for only leveling up trading and not leveling up combat stats, like Vigor for example.
To put 2mil into better perspective, I bought a 10.000 prosperity town for 550k, so in 10 hours you can realistically just buy a kingdom, as ~4000 prosperity towns are around 200k.
This makes gear worthless, as it is very cheap compared to my revenue and I have no penalty for only leveling up trading and not leveling up combat stats, like Vigor for example.
To put 2mil into better perspective, I bought a 10.000 prosperity town for 550k, so in 10 hours you can realistically just buy a kingdom, as ~4000 prosperity towns are around 200k.
Aedan_Cousland
Recruit
Yeah, that's kind of the point. You invest in workshops because you want to be rich or atleast wealthy, not because you want just return these money someday in late game. Further nerfs will just make this mechanic entirely useless.
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Yeah, currently the investment return for some workshops is 15-20 days which is too good if we take into account that campaign could last for at least 1000 days.
If workshops would give about 250-300 denars daily, you can get what you have invested in 50 days and continue getting money from It for 950 days if your campaign just las for 1000 days. Calle me crazy but I think these numbers are still great.
meowwoofneigh
Regular
I don't see the point in making it hard for players to get a source of funds, if anything; the thought of putting 6-digit price tags for equipments for the sake of 'realism' or reducing the amount of money you get from workshops and caravans is just making the game needlessly difficult, less fun and more grind.
Botlike
Regular
An income of ~250 on workshop investments that make sense ( meaning having raw materials nearby ) would be ideal for me.
I am hoping for a nerf to tannery and boosting everything else , cause currently they are way too disappointing or requires too much work to get them to work decently and thus , are not even worth the investment. Getting 0-50$ per day from MOST workshops is a total joke and although even this sad income will prove a worthy investment in the long run , i am simply not interested to engage such 'system' at all.
Starting workshops should be useful in early-mid game to maintain party wages and not being used as an investment that will pay you back several years later.............. ~15k is too valuable early in the game to throw them away like that.
Maybe they can expand in the future and have different types of workshops affect different settlement stats such as prosperity.
That would be useful for later game when you no longer need the income , to optimise your towns.
Problem with having them just for income is that the player will always go for the best ones , even 1 slight step away from balance is enough to make all workshops apart from the 1 OP type obsolete , similar to what happens to tannery atm , even in a smaller scale.
There is already level set on the workshops so they propably have plans!
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Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
What is less fun for you, could be funnier for other players. I have just downloaded a mod (well, It is a savegame) which allows you to be king since day 1 and I got bored in 2 minutes. This game should be challenging and achieving goals should be hard, otherwise having kids will be useless because we would be able to do everything in the first 1000 days.
