Passive perks are not distinguishable enough

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KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
As OP stated the level of randomness has increased with the latest update. I can only imagine skins and other will worsen the latter. As we proceed down this path it will be harder and harder to tell who has which perk and this will ultimately lead to displeasure of the majority. One of the fundamental things people enjoyed back in the days, in warband, was to pick a gear that was suited to combat your opponent.. This is now slowly being taken away from us (although it wasn't really there in the first place, considering the class system)
 

TheBard ✂

Salt Knight
Master Knight
Wait, the WW/SS nerf isn't live? I haven't played cav much on this patch but it was present in combat testing.
probably didn't pass QA, i dont really care if it's in or not, but if you keep it in, dont let the lances be like they are atm, nerf them.
Spears are fine bc you can't press x.
 

Hans 77

Knight
WBWF&SVC
Bannerlord: where the stats are made up and the equipment doesn't matter

^^

This pretty much sums up how far the M&B series has fallen from Warband -where each stat had profound implications and every piece of equipment had a tangible purpose and impact on the match.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
probably didn't pass QA, i dont really care if it's in or not, but if you keep it in, dont let the lances be like they are atm, nerf them.
Spears are fine bc you can't press x.
Havent played much skirmish lately, sorta felt like the WW SS dissapeared even before the patch, but I havent played enough lately to say.

The cav vs inf fight hasnt changed at all. All this patch did was massively punish cav that would actually get stopped, but good cavalry probably wont be hit by the spear anyway. Doesnt matter if it does 1 damage or 10000, if the spear cant reach the horse, it might aswell do 0.

Lances shouldnt be longer than the spears for sure.
 

TheBard ✂

Salt Knight
Master Knight
Havent played much skirmish lately, sorta felt like the WW SS dissapeared even before the patch, but I havent played enough lately to say.

The cav vs inf fight hasnt changed at all. All this patch did was massively punish cav that would actually get stopped, but good cavalry probably wont be hit by the spear anyway. Doesnt matter if it does 1 damage or 10000, if the spear cant reach the horse, it might aswell do 0.

Lances shouldnt be longer than the spears for sure.
To really see it we will have to wait to see where the meta around spear and cav breaker actually develops, atm it rather (to me at least) looks like shocks are bigger problems then cav.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
To really see it we will have to wait to see where the meta around spear and cav breaker actually develops, atm it rather (to me at least) looks like shocks are bigger problems then cav.
Yeah I think balancing went abit out the window this patch, seems we have more apex predators on the field than ever before.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
probably didn't pass QA, i dont really care if it's in or not, but if you keep it in, dont let the lances be like they are atm, nerf them.
Spears are fine bc you can't press x.
The couching really isn't the (main) problem with cav and the issues also apply to spears on cav. The WW/SS nerf was a slight improvement and I'm disappointed to see it dropped.
 
Havent played much skirmish lately, sorta felt like the WW SS dissapeared even before the patch, but I havent played enough lately to say.

The cav vs inf fight hasnt changed at all. All this patch did was massively punish cav that would actually get stopped, but good cavalry probably wont be hit by the spear anyway. Doesnt matter if it does 1 damage or 10000, if the spear cant reach the horse, it might aswell do 0.

Lances shouldnt be longer than the spears for sure.
Absolutely agree + add spear swings back in to actually deal with INF when you got a spear! Long spear defaults + pikes should outmatch lances, short spears dont make any sense in the game currently unless its supporting melee. One on ones with spears are boring and bad.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Absolutely agree + add spear swings back in to actually deal with INF when you got a spear! Long spear defaults + pikes should outmatch lances, short spears dont make any sense in the game currently unless its supporting melee. One on ones with spears are boring and bad.
I might be wrong but I think the animations on horseback are faster than on foot, so cavalry has the advantage in almost every possible way.
Swinging on spears would be nice too
 
I might be wrong but I think the animations on horseback are faster than on foot, so cavalry has the advantage in almost every possible way.
Swinging on spears would be nice too
I agree, not being able to swing a spear is totally inept on their part. Spear on Spear combat is the worst.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
[...]
Swinging on spears would be nice too
Agreed, but only with short spears. I had this conversation with Shatti here:

Terco_Viejo said:
We all know your skills with spears in the game and you have my respects. However, in my humble opinion not all 2h spears in Bannerlord should be able to perform side swings like in warband, let me explain.

The problem lies in which animation is conducive to manoeuvrability by weapon length. In Bannerlord we have that most of the spears have a longer length if we compare them with warband.

Here are three weapons that we know well.


9Ak-4.jpg



In the first image, the spear is short enough to favour the kind of side swings we find in warband that resemble Filipino-style spear/staff fighting and other Asian arts. Therefore, transferring that performance to Bannerlord as long as the weapon size/use ratio is kept, I see it as plausible.

When the spear exceeds the aforementioned lengths, we are no longer strictly speaking about spears, but about polearms (not the poleaxe/axes variant). The use of the awlpike in warband is that even though the dimensions are not much bigger than the short spear. Therefore, in my opinion this type of weapon should not be able to perform lateral swings and should rely on overhead, from below or depending on the weapon (menavlion) stabbing animations with vertical swings from top to bottom. Also, given that we wouldn't have horizontal swings, I would favour those stabs with a repositioning of the weapon after releasing the blow (discussed here).




And finally there are the glaives. They certainly have to be able to swing, it is obvious according to their typology. The problem (in my eyes) in Bannerlord is that these weapons are too long (see Khuzait units), I would personally reduce them to warband's small ones sizes and for horseback a I would penalise its use with a manoeuvrability restriction (swing arcs) as I commented here.

In short, a revision of the weapon usage/animation allowed in weapon:

  • 1H spears like in Warband
  • 2H short spears like in Warband. Small dimensions to allow a fast lateral swing in a plausible way.
  • 2H long spears without horizontal swing, only overhead stabs and stabs from below (*experimental optional - handle grip extensible).
    • 2H special cutting spears/polearms menavlion type, only stabs overhead, from below and vertical swing cut (bracing in longer ones). Manoeuvrability penalty. I commented about it here.
  • 2h glaives, as in warband but with size reduction for mounted unit versions.

Menavlions on horseback, never.

And truth be told, it wouldn't be complicated to implement given that it would just be necessary to create a new weapon class by assigning specific animations to it.
 
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