Party wages are too high in 1.5.6 beta

[Ragemaster9999]

I made it to mid game in my current playthrough. Im starting to notice its very difficult to maintain my own party and my companion party due to high wages recruitment cost and food cost.

Due note I currently have 3 castles with only 1 of them properly garrisoned my main fief. The others are relying on milita in order to keep garrison cost down. I also have four workshops making around 500 per day total. The castles and their villages maybe make another 500 denar per day so total income 1000 per day.

I have two party slots right now, one filled by my brother nogan the other by 'the brave' archetype wanderer. These are the real money drains. As soon as you tell them to make a party they seem to go and spend about 3k to 4 k denar on food. You can tell when they spawn in a city on the world map immediately dump 3k denar and proceed to slowly move to the nearest village to recruit at 1.0 map speed most likely due to being overencumbered. Hope a bandit doesn't intercept them during this time or bye bye 3k worth of food. Then they will spend another 2k or so just getting their troops replenished at the villages. Before its all over your 10k in the hole. Not to mention my own party is costing about 500 denar per day alot of that due to how overpriced companions are with many of them costing around 50 denar per day. Side note why does my family and brother cost gold per day the same as a tier 6 unit wtf. Early game your better off leaving your brother in tbe tavern because he cost to much to bring along in your party.

With bringing in 1000 per day and having 2 other parties active I found unable to sustain unless constantly winning big battles where battle loot essentially funded everything. And sooner or later my parties got wiped and I wiped and now I'm rebuilding and its just really really a pain. Is it possible passive income can be boosted just a little?

 

[Discount_Blade]

If your just a vassal, then don't bother having so many extra parties. Keep your companions in a garrison or in your party. Stop sending them out on their own with parties of their own. That's your problem. You're a vassal. Not a ruler. Act like it.

 

[Ragemaster9999]

If your just a vassal, then don't bother having so many extra parties. Keep your companions in a garrison or in your party. Stop sending them out on their own with parties of their own. That's your problem. You're a vassal. Not a ruler. Act like it.

The game gives you party slots but doesn't expect you to use them? Calling bs on this one bro. Also all of the other tier 3 and 4 AI clans have multiple parties out so yeah.

 

[Discount_Blade]

The game gives you party slots but doesn't expect you to use them? Calling bs on this one bro.

Call whatever you like. You're not a ruler. So stop expecting that YOU SHOULD be able to play like one when you aren't. Broke folks don't go buying Porsches just because they have the right to. Save up to do so, learn the economics better, go independent, or shut up.

 

[Ragemaster9999]

Call whatever you like. You're not a ruler. So stop expecting that YOU SHOULD be able to play like one when you aren't. Broke folks don't go buying Porsches just because they have the right to. Save up to do so, learn economics better, go independent, or shut up.

Except all the other AI clans of equal tier also can support multiple parties no problem. Clearly there is a balance problem somewhere.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Except all the other AI clans of equal tier also can support multiple parties no problem. Clearly there is a balance problem somewhere.

Wouldn't know if its 1.5.6 problem solely or not. I haven't been able to play it due to game crashing the moment I start a battle. Sitting on a support ticket. Once I play, if I remember this post I'll come back and share my findings. Otherwise, I guess I'll just have to take your word for it for now but I've never found it difficult to manage upwards of 5 companions or more with relatively decent upkeep. I don't expect that to be different in this version.

 

[Ragemaster9999]

Wouldn't know if its 1.5.6 problem solely or not. I haven't been able to play it due to game crashing the moment I start a battle. Sitting on a support ticket. Once I play, if I remember this post I'll come back and share my findings. Otherwise, I guess I'll just have to take your word for it for now but I've never found it difficult to manage upwards of 5 companions or more with relatively decent upkeep. I don't expect that to be different in this version.

Something changed iv put a ton of hours into the game in previous versions im just trying to figure out what changed because it feels harder to maintain your finances despite workshops getting buffed. It wasn't too hard to maintain before the multiple parties. I noticed companion parties don't give you money anymore when they are being successful. Previously if they got into battles you would get a net positive from them from them converting loot into gold and from selling prisoners. That doesn't seem to happen anymore.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Something changed iv put a ton of hours into the game in previous versions im just trying to figure out what changed because it feels harder to maintain your finances despite workshops getting buffed. It wasn't too hard to maintain before the multiple parties. I noticed companion parties don't give you money anymore when they are being successful. Previously if they got into battles you would get a net positive from them from them converting loot into gold and from selling prisoners. That doesn't seem to happen anymore.

Then you should probably mention this as a potential problem in the technical support section instead of here in the general area. I mean, it might not be a bug but the worse they could do is tell you its not worth their time looking into. But the best they could do is actually look into it and maybe find a fix.

 

[Ragemaster9999]

Then you should probably mention this as a potential problem in the technical support section instead of here in the general area. I mean, it might not be a bug but the worse they could do is tell you its not worth their time looking into. But the best they could do is actually look into it and maybe find a fix.

I'll post there next i just wanted to see if other people had a similar experience.

 

[Discount_Blade]

I'll post there next i just wanted to see if other people had a similar experience.

Ah. Sorry I wasted your time then. I kinda held up progress by being an ass.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

You're right about passive income being pretty stingy. My silverworks gives like 139 and it in a decent prosperity (5k+)town (with silver village), the town + villages give just under 2k, which is pretty good, but most other town aren't that high and castles are notoriously petty. My current cost are about 4k(I'm bulking up), which is okay during war as I can steamroll anyone but if a peace goes to long I will be upset. I may turn on my faction if that happens

 

[Antaeus]

Your brother is a strong leader who will create an expensive party. Try using him to garrison a castle where his talents will earn you money rather than cost you.

Use an average companion to lead your extra party, then keep it in an army with your party permanently - your own parties don't cost you influence. That way you'll earn leadership off them and they wont be able to over spend your money.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Something changed iv put a ton of hours into the game in previous versions im just trying to figure out what changed because it feels harder to maintain your finances despite workshops getting buffed. It wasn't too hard to maintain before the multiple parties. I noticed companion parties don't give you money anymore when they are being successful. Previously if they got into battles you would get a net positive from them from them converting loot into gold and from selling prisoners. That doesn't seem to happen anymore.

One thing they did was reduce the loot gold value for npc lords to replicate "trade tax" penalty, so it has that effect of less money for you parties. As far as prisoners, Idduno but I when in an army with me they get roguery skill when we go to town, so I assume they sold prisoners.

 

[babelfisch]

Workshops did not nerfed but average prices of workshop output items (wine, beer, leather, velvet, jewelry, ....) seems reduced by about 30% (especially at first 4 years of game, then reduce drops 10-20%). I examined situation and found the reason. Dealing with it currently. Workshop average daily profit will be around 150-175 after fix currently it is around 75-100 at early game and 100-125 at mid/late game. This part is so fragile too, easily broken when something is changed, need to check it after every patch. This reduce at prices also effect profit of caravans and players who make trading.

Also I know players who has castles are having problems paying wages of garrison. Castellon Office project will be changed and will reduce garrison wages where it built by 10%-20%-30% (t1-t2-t3). It will help you a bit.

 

[mexxico]

@Ragemaster9999 can you send your save game to [email protected]. I wonder how your 3 castles and their villages make total of 500 income per day. I will examine a bit.

Yes, your other clan parties spend so much on food and party wages. After adding clan party management things can be a bit easier for players.

 

[Apocal]

@Ragemaster9999 can you send your save game to [email protected]. I wonder how your 3 castles and their villages make total of 500 income per day. I will examine a bit.

Looted villages, low prosperity castles.

I figured this was intended design, but if it isn't, have I got some savegames for you.

 

[mexxico]

Looted villages, low prosperity castles.

I figured this was intended design, but if it isn't, have I got some savegames for you.

Yes probably we will see something like this (low hearth villages, low prosperity castles, some raided villages) but I wanted to be sure. Even this is the case total 500 daily for 3 castles & 6 villages is so low.

Fyi
for villages :
0-300 hearth : 0.5x production so 0.5x tax
300-600 hearth : x production so x tax
600+ hearth : 1.5x production so 1.5x tax
Important : You gain tax if villagers can sell their items in town market. 60% of money they earned is added to tax pool and you get 1/5 of that pool daily.

for castles :
tax is about approx. prospeirty x 0.25 daily

 

[mexxico]

Something changed iv put a ton of hours into the game in previous versions im just trying to figure out what changed because it feels harder to maintain your finances despite workshops getting buffed. It wasn't too hard to maintain before the multiple parties. I noticed companion parties don't give you money anymore when they are being successful. Previously if they got into battles you would get a net positive from them from them converting loot into gold and from selling prisoners. That doesn't seem to happen anymore.

I found out what caused your problem. Read especially underlined part.

If you examine above tables you can see there are two problems related to financial situations of clans. First is cumulative total of money in all clans are getting more and more each year. There is a money inflation however even there is a money inflation some clans are so poor and they are having difficulties in even recruiting men to their parties (they have less party usage ratios). Also probably some clans even have problems at feeding their men. Finally these clans defect to another kingdom. Also even some clans have nearly no money some clans have 1M+ money in same kingdom. There is a huge difference between clans as terms of financial situation even inside same kingdom. This happens because of several reasons but main reason is some clans remain without fief / income and there is no mechanism / feature for fief redistirbution. This shows our first and biggest problem. Money should distributed more equally among clans in same kingdom. Then several developments are done to fix this issue. Created a kingdom budget and any clan having 100K+ money start to give 0.5% of their (money - 100K) to kingdom wallet daily. For example if a clan leader has 200K he paid 500 denars daily to kingdom budget (200K - 100K) x 0.5 = 500. This collected money is used to help poor clans in same kingdom if any exists. Each day 500 gold money is given to any clan having less than 30K money, 1000 gold is given to any clan having less than 15K gold. Player is out of these calculations for now. Maybe later we can include player also. We are trying to create more balanced financial situations among clans in same kingdom. Also because there is a high money inflation loot gain of npc lords is decreased. For the ones who does not know they have a different mechanic, they are getting money rather than items when a battle ends. There were no trade penalty applied to these instant loot->money conversations. However as you know there is high trade penalty at weapons / armors, as player if you try to sell or buy same item you can see high price difference. When trade penalty added to this loot->money conversation money inflation is decreased and total clan leader money at mid/late game in all world is decreased. Unfortunately because of reduce in loot income of npc lords number of poor clans are increased first. With the help of kingdom budget addition I mentioned above these poor clans are then reduced. Then we get healthier and more balanced financial situations. Still of course we have poor clans but their number is decreased overall.

So after this change all non-player parties make about 50% less money from loot. This was needed but now it costs you more holding clan parties because their income decreased and you need to pay their food and wages. So actually clan parties should be more useful because you pay them good money (maybe in average 0.5-1K per 100 men party for their wages + food). You cannot control them much in current state of game and you feel they are not useful enough compared to their cost. With a new feature which increases your control over your clan parties things will be better.

Still it is good if you send your save game to me. I want to examine it.

 

[Dabos37]

Once workshops give 200-300 again and caravans around 500, plus the change for making t1,t2,t3 un keep cheaper in castles, I think we won’t have much problems with money.

People are habbituated (me included) to keep parties full of elites and see positive income every day, which is pretty OP for the player.

 

[Antaeus]

People are habbituated (me included) to keep parties full of elites and see positive income every day, which is pretty OP for the player.

Exactly... your brother or husband or wife in particular will build parties that cost upwards of 1k and sometimes towards 2k. And they'll treat your balance sheet like their personal ATM.

You've just got to think about the traits of your party leaders, and whether you really need them to be running about the map with that horde of Oathsworn or Sharpshooters. Especially if you're letting them into allied armies where all those good troops are going to be wasted on some stupid attack.