P.O.G.A.A.H propositions and suggestions list to improve infantry ✂

[Hairless]

P.O.G.A.A.H ✂

Pace, OGL, Gibby, Arni, AXDER and me decided to make a list of changes that will greatly improve infantry.
MardA said that if the community will make the list of changes to the melee combat, he would let the devs review them, so here they are:
​

Spoiler: Change list

• the melee animations for swings should be tightened so that they start closer to the front of the player and end quicker so as to encourage accuracy (will need some combat speed tweaks most likely),​
• needs a slight turncap increase, think this is already in the works,​
• blocking hitboxes need to be made more reliable for shields, it's far too easy to hit around them. If this is due to the shield directional blocking, make the blocking dynamic like several community suggestions,​
• reduce the weight of shields, make movement speed closer across classes, the difference between combat speed/blocking speed/acceleration etc overall needs tweaked further. The aim should be to discourage hit and run style melee and instead encourage close trades of blows. If people can slip out of combat too easily, something is wrong. May need a combat testing session,​
• add polearm stab-stun like in Warband (fixes cav point blank spam and using javs in melee),​
• fix chambers, they were not "too easy" in Warband (??), if you have a better working idea great, if not go with what works,​
• completely remove delay of releasing ur swing after the hold,​
• reduce the block delay to warband level,​
• fix random stuns, make them be based on weapon weight, not amount of random cats passing behind AVRC window (aka make it depends only on ONE FACTOR),​
• either completely remove the stances or leave it just for visual purposes, without actually affecting the speed of your swing,​
• remove/fix perfect blocks so they work with the shields,​
• enable the rest of profficiencies. atm only riding/shooting is enabled.​

Also, few months passed from the last combat tests, if we really want to improve the game we need combat tests back.
@AVRC @NIN3 @MArdA TaleWorlds​

 

[TheBard]

The bald man is a smart man.

Sounds good.
+1, signed, whatevs.

 

[Alim_kz]

HA TFU

+1, signed.

 

[Rangah]

+1 signed upvoted and donated

 

[Einarcf]

Came for the anime, stayed for the suggestions.

 

[Mabons]

I would make love to this post if I could ?

 

[TheBard]

It kinda worked^^ and proves a point that due to lockdown the entire forum population seems to be horny as ****

 

[Mushbeast]

P.O.G.A.A.H ✂
​

• needs a slight turncap increase, think this is already in the works,​
• blocking hitboxes need to be made more reliable for shields, it's far too easy to hit around them. If this is due to the shield directional blocking, make the blocking dynamic like several community suggestions,​
• add polearm stab-stun like in Warband (fixes cav point blank spam and using javs in melee),​
• fix random stuns, make them be based on weapon weight, not amount of random cats passing behind AVRC window (aka make it depends only on ONE FACTOR),​

Agree with practically all of these, though do you mean a turn-cap decrease instead? I feel like most people agree there is already too much ballerina, unless you mean outside of attacks.

The shield's covering less was added in a couple patches back and whilst it sounds good on paper it has nerfed heavy infantry quite a lot. You used to be able to 1vX a fair bit with a shield, now it's considerably harder because of that. Might be an unpopular opinion but I think shields break too easily too, at least from weapons that aren't designed to break shields.

You'll have to explain what pole-arm stab-stun is, but on a similar note I reckon either completely get rid of glances with spears or make them apply a stagger effect regardless.

Finally, get rid of the block-stun system completely imo.

Overall very good suggestions.

 

[DainMorgot]

These suggestions will really breathe life into the combat. The stance system is useless and badly designed and the wind up delays are bringing the game down. I adore this post, except from the disgusting weeaboo picture.

Also a question, what do we mean by turn-caps? Glaives and 2handers in general have an extreme turn cap already. You can jump out of combat and 360 hit the troop that is running behind you if you are fast enough, so I dont fully understand that.

 

[IceNoVa]

Interesting choice of layout and asthetics to present your ideas, but those seem fairly decent. A playtest would certainly be needed, but capable volunteers are not hard to find.
My only note is to keep animations crisp and functional, so we don't get the twisty cluster**** of feint spam that was the pinnacle of warband melee (apart from near-infinite chamber chains of course)

 

[Zdzichu]

reduce the block delay to warband level
+1 I love you guys

 

[Silvernj]

Yes

 

[Firunien]

Not so sure about the shield one, other then that its a great list which should be considered by devs. Consider using the combat testgroup before pushing changes like these to live.

About chambers, at least to me big part of it not beeing viable is different character heights, imo those differences bring more negatives to the game then positives.

 

[ryotaink]

very fire+1

 

[Errayn]

Also, few months passed from the last combat tests, if we really want to improve the game we need combat tests back.
​

Last time you guys made combat test we had to deal with broken crush through for like 3 months. are you sure about that ?

 

[Hairless]

Last time you guys made combat test we had to deal with broken crush through for like 3 months. are you sure about that ?

Everyone in the combat tests were aganist crush through, your delusion that it was our idea is just stupid. There is no single sane person in the world that would support crush through we had for 3 months.

 

[TheBard]

Last time you guys made combat test we had to deal with broken crush through for like 3 months. are you sure about that ?

Crushthrough was unanimously opposed by the combat testers.

Everyone in the combat tests were aganist crush through, your delusion that it was our idea is just stupid. There is no single sane person in the world that would support crush through we had for 3 months.

Giving it to each twohanders with some being absolutely broken was garbage, but now the shock class is kind of dead.

 

[Einarcf]

I don't really see much problem with shields in melee, but I don't play so much with shields anyway.

Shields have good hp now imo.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Agree with practically all of these, though do you mean a turn-cap decrease instead? I feel like most people agree there is already too much ballerina, unless you mean outside of attacks.

Yes, very slightly harder to spin. I guess it's a lowering of the cap technically, you're right. As said I think this is already coming but it's just to reiterate.

The shield's covering less was added in a couple patches back and whilst it sounds good on paper it has nerfed heavy infantry quite a lot. You used to be able to 1vX a fair bit with a shield, now it's considerably harder because of that.

I agree on the coverage, I think it's one of those changes that came about due to how counter-intuitive it looked but has been a direct nerf to infantry. I think the shield directional blocking is a big part of it. They should look at @Terco_Viejo fix from over a year ago.

You'll have to explain what pole-arm stab-stun is, but on a similar note I reckon either completely get rid of glances with spears or make them apply a stagger effect regardless.

The stab stun on polearms was a mechanic in Warband that meant if a stab got successfully blocked, the weapon was stunned for a brief moment (literally about 0.5s at worst). This applied to all stabs, swords and polearms.

Without this mechanic, we see certain strategies become prevalent such as switching to melee mode in javs and using them simply to stab. These can be stab-spammed on shields and are very quick, with very little punish. Similarly, cav meta right now involves quite a lot of spamming stabs at shields. Since stabs always have range, the mini-stun helps balance this by ensuring people are more careful with the stabs because an aware blocker can punish it.

Technically it would be a nerf to spear infantry, but it wouldn't impact spear inf vs cav (in fact if anything it would help spear inf in that regard as the cav would be far more likely to get stunned). Personally I find spears pretty strong in melee group fights, they only suck in 1v1 which is fine.

 

[Errayn]

Everyone in the combat tests were aganist crush through, your delusion that it was our idea is just stupid. There is no single sane person in the world that would support crush through we had for 3 months.

Crushthrough was unanimously opposed by the combat testers.

If you guys were against crush through that much. Why did they added it and not removed it (for 3 monts)? Maybe you guys need to suck less while making a combat test with devs. And tell them their mistakes loudly so they don't make stupid mistakes. Even if you guys really said crush through is bull**** and devs are not listened to your feedback. What is the reason of making combat tests then? If combat testers opinions does not matter to devs why should those combat tests happen?