overhead spear with shield

[sirgzu]

Is it possible? I've ever only managed to do it without a shield. I can see no reason why it can't be done with a shield, and it's been done in other mods.

Besides, it could make spearmen more viable in siege and tight quarters, if say, the minimal distance to land a strike was shortened (as well as the weapon reach).

 

[Andrix]

I don't think it is possible in VC, but hopefully they will add that in the next version.

 

[kalarhan]

VC spearmen are already strong to be near OP as troops. So any new attack would have a big impact on balance (SP and MP).

Brace, overhead and crouch would be great additions to the game in any case 

 

[sirgzu]

I don't think it is possible in VC, but hopefully they will add that in the next version.

Why is it not possible?

VC spearmen are already strong to be near OP as troops. So any new attack would have a big impact on balance (SP and MP).

Brace, overhead and crouch would be great additions to the game in any case 

If spearmen are OP why not add a heavy equipment penalty to spears for balance? Seems legit, spears are heavy and cumbersome.
cRPG has a penalty when using a mix of spear / shield, which makes sense when you think about it. Using spears as 1H vs 2H should make a big difference, like for bastard swords.

 

[florinteal]

It's not possible because you can't do it - as in you can only do an underhand thrust with a spear/shield in the game right now.

The reason I can see for this is because I can't imagine trying to execute an overhead thrust with a spear as being anything but awkward, especially with a shield. Historical images of this sort of thing more than likely depict javelin throwing rather than spear thrusting. I don't even like the fact that you can swing your spear around like a baseball bat, to be honest.

If you wanted to use your spear in tighter quarters, you wouldn't start thrusting it over your head, you'd grip it further forward. It'd be nice if you could do this in WB.

 

[Articulo34]

There is already a polearm overhead thrust with shield animation within the game files (ani_attacks.brf), it´s called "javelin_thrust_overhead".

 

[Andrix]

I don't think it is possible in VC, but hopefully they will add that in the next version.

Why is it not possible?

Have you ever done an overhead thrust with spear/shield in VC?

 

[FelipeII]

Is it possible? I've ever only managed to do it without a shield. I can see no reason why it can't be done with a shield, and it's been done in other mods.

Besides, it could make spearmen more viable in siege and tight quarters, if say, the minimal distance to land a strike was shortened (as well as the weapon reach).

I liked this suggestion. But I guess they will never implement it in the VC, they are a bit conserver about different features.

The actual shield+spear combat dynamic is strange, you can block a whole troop of spearmen just holding one button, like, forever. I always do it in the tournaments. This is pretty messy. :S

It would be amazing the devs considers to do it.

 

[Andrix]

It is only messy if you combine all of that with bots. In historical events in Vikingr mod where you have 100+ players, we do shieldwall combined with spearmen behind who are doing overhead thrusts. I think you can find a recording of Battle of Maldon event on Youtube where we did just that.

 

[FelipeII]

Hmmm, this is a good tactical use of this dynamic, anyway when we talking about the players using it, its just easier to change weapon or just leave the shield after the shieldwall has gone. But the main problem of shield + spear that in the SP of the VC there is a ton of troops that use this combination, and any troop with a heavy armor and shield+one handed weapon can massacrate about 3-4 spearmen before die. I guess this feature would add a bit of diversity for the bot spearmen.

 

[Andrix]

I have given up hope for the bots a long time ago... X)

 

[sirgzu]

If you wanted to use your spear in tighter quarters, you wouldn't start thrusting it over your head, you'd grip it further forward. It'd be nice if you could do this in WB.

I forgot but you can "switch mode" on some weapons with X (I only know what it does with throwing weapons, any other use cases?).
That could work with the spear, in secondary one mode you'd grip it closer to the head, with decreased reach and perhaps increased speed?

The problem with regular stab, even if you grip closer to the head is that it doesn't account for the fact that your spear would be sticking out behind you, which would be impractical / unrealistic in a melee where lots of other people are pushing behind. The overhead thrust sounds more realistic, the shaft of the spear would be sticking out at an angle over your shoulder, not in anyone's belly.

 

[Andrix]

Warband has glitches like that - you have a two-handed axe with weapon reach of 130 and it cuts all the way from handle to the blade.

 

[Articulo34]

I forgot but you can "switch mode" on some weapons with X (I only know what it does with throwing weapons, any other use cases?).
That could work with the spear, in secondary one mode you'd grip it closer to the head, with decreased reach and perhaps increased speed?

I wouldn´t trust the AI to properly switch between melee modes without player input.

 

[FelipeII]

In VC when the bots brokens his main weapon, sometimes they take a javelin, throwing spear and use in the melee mode. if a tiny script the devs would be able to switch to overhead spear mode for siege mode, for example...

 

[hoboistice]

It's easily possible but it wouldn't be balanced in the slightest. It's fine having overhead thrust for a spear without a shield, because you don't have a shield, but it's incredibly overpowered to have a spear with massive pierce damage AND a shield.

I forgot but you can "switch mode" on some weapons with X (I only know what it does with throwing weapons, any other use cases?).
That could work with the spear, in secondary one mode you'd grip it closer to the head, with decreased reach and perhaps increased speed?

I wouldn´t trust the AI to properly switch between melee modes without player input.

Switching weapon modes doesn't change the mesh without scripting (there's a submod a guy made recently which does this). Regardless the AI won't change to melee mode on a melee weapon, but they will on a ranged weapon (thrown to melee) if the damage on it is higher than their current melee weapon.

 

[sirgzu]

It's easily possible but it wouldn't be balanced in the slightest. It's fine having overhead thrust for a spear without a shield, because you don't have a shield, but it's incredibly overpowered to have a spear with massive pierce damage AND a shield.

How about making overhead inflict cut damage instead of pierce? Afterall you can't put as much push behind on overhead thrust as you could with a regular thrust.

 

[hoboistice]

How about making overhead inflict cut damage instead of pierce? Afterall you can't put as much push behind on overhead thrust as you could with a regular thrust.

It's possible, but you'd have to replace one of the overhead animations. You'd have to make the swing damage cut as well because there's only two damage types a weapon can have.

 

[Phoenix VII]

If spearmen are OP why not add a heavy equipment penalty to spears for balance? Seems legit, spears are heavy and cumbersome.
cRPG has a penalty when using a mix of spear / shield, which makes sense when you think about it. Using spears as 1H vs 2H should make a big difference, like for bastard swords.

Spears weigh only a few pounds and are actually very nimble. Changing the direction of a spear thrust only require a very small movement from the hand holding the spear; with a sword, feints or changing direction of a swing require more motion in comparison.

I think it'd probably be a good idea to make them like other hand-and-a-half weapons though (such as bastard swords) and have spears lose some power when used with a shield (but not speed).

 

[Sir_Dara]

I'm personally annoyed about how spears work in VC, especially if you consider that the other types of weapons are just the one handed making just two choices of weapons. Many times I've found myself facing an opponent, using a board&spear technique, only to have all my attacks parried by simply holding a button by both Bots and Players. Also, in VC it's more important where you strike with your weapon than in Warband and spears are mostly aimed to hit the belly, which is also the most armored part so usually an attack tends to end with a bounce (and the inevitable sword right to my head, which can make it explode), so having the possibility to do an overhead attack to hit the helmet can help a lot, especially in Viking Invasion mode where it's easy to be overwhelmed by bots. 
But, guys, there are different types of spears. What about leaving the long spears just like they are right now and making the short ones capable to do an overhead attack with shield? After all, I can imagine that a long spear wielded with one hand require more strength, if not for the weight, at least for the length, while the short ones can compensate the lack of reach with more maneuverability, making them worth to be taken. Also, this will make them available in a shield-wall because with the two handed overhead attack they hit nothing because most of the length of the spear is occupied by the hands.

Speaking of the animation, I've noticed that in SP, when I command my men to form the shield-wall, my animation of attacking with the spear change, with the trusting attack of sword, so I attack with my spear over my shield. Perhaps this can be a base for a new overhead animation? Or maybe it is a bug, I dunno.