Orion closes dissatisfaction survey -- proving the fragility and inability of the developer team

[NewBritish]

Recently I had a poll up on whether members of the development team should be dismissed due to their incompetence. About half of the community voted yes. Orion shut down the thread, threatening "don't do this again". Pretty sad response... We should be able to have open discussion on the site.

He told us that if we're unsatisfied, we should "vote with [our] feet?" How about don't advertise a functioning multiplayer to dupe consumers into a purchase. Further, I like the game enough to want its success. The decision makers / development team are killing the game. Warband is more popular...

There's a reason we haven't gotten the death counter back. The team is not only deaf to the community, but is incredibly stupid. The studio would be more successful if it followed what the player base wants.

Cheers Orion. Hope you can give a better response to this one than a vague threat and an inability to respond to the complains of the community!

 

[Askey]

*snip*

Cheers Orion. Hope you can give a better response to this one than a vague threat and an inability to respond to the complains of the community!

Hes a moderator, hes not on Taleworlds payroll (volunteer?). I suspect he changed the name of my thread, as it may have sounded too accusatory for the forums - but he didn't close it ?.

Also, the thread was kind of dumb. Ultimately Bannerlord belongs to the company and they can do whatever they wish. Taking peoples jobs and daily income is considerably harsh for something as petty as a game. Most of the developers that work for Taleworlds will have their hands tied; its the same for most that work for corporate. If the company want to screw up the game through wokeism, further potential monetary gain (the horrid class system and skins) and E-Sports because reasons - then so be it. Often the idiots steering a game development company rarely play video games and are often businessmen - where do you think their priorities lay.

The only thing we can do is complain about particular features so the company can ignore us. Its what they have done so far about the major design features of MP.

 

[_COS_]

Did you expect devs to be fired over a poll on the forums?
I also don't think TW's intern army have a say in what gets added to the game

 

[Askey]

Did you expect devs to be fired over a poll on the forums?
I also don't think TW's intern army have a say in what gets added to the game

*Sigh*

Why is this even a thing with the interns, I think they did the same thing with Elite Dangerous Odyssey.

 

[FearSpear]

Yeah it's a pretty poor look from @Orion to taunt people to "vote with their feet" when that is precisely what a massive number of players have done and that is why the multiplayer competitive community is dead.

I know personally that a great number of people such as @EbdanianAdmiral @Abuzut have quit the game due to the incompetency/inattention from Taleworlds on multiplayer, yet they still come to the Bannerlord forum section to see if anything has/will change (which of course it does not).

No, it is not "petty vindictiveness" to ask for people who don't seem to be doing their job to be fired. This is what happens when you do not do your job. "Petty vindictiveness" would be something like asking someone to be fired for a political opinion, which the community did not.

People are voting with their feet. That is why there are only around 30 active competitive players in North America during what should be one of the most active and alive periods of the game. Sad!

 

[Younes]

My thread about removal of kills was also deleted. Not sure who did it since i didn't get a notification but from the brief conversation with orion, it seems like the moderation team is always out for deleting threads no matter what.

Looking at you Orion, i made it clear my thread had a message behind it when i posted it, the absurdity of removing kills as a suggestion was done to compare the absurdity of taleworlds decision to remove deaths, you still haven't restored it.

 

[Greedalicious]

If the company want to screw up the game through wokeism, further potential monetary gain (the horrid class system and skins) and E-Sports because reasons - then so be it. Often the idiots steering a game development company rarely play video games and are often businessmen - where do you think their priorities lay.

The only thing we can do is complain about particular features so the company can ignore us. Its what they have done so far about the major design features of MP.

The game isnt focusing on esports, for the love of god people have to stop saying that. I could write a wall of text to explain why they see esports and competitive as an afterthought, but the fact that death was removed and after 2 years we still dont have spectator tools (which is the single most important thing for esport,) how can people STILL think competitive matters.

 

[Askey]

The game isnt focusing on esports, for the love of god people have to stop saying that. I could write a wall of text to explain why they see esports and competitive as an afterthought, but the fact that death was removed and after 2 years we still dont have spectator tools (which is the single most important thing for esport,) how can people STILL think competitive matters.

Then where is Battle mode, it was replaced by Skrimish mode - the same rules and building blocks for the mode they used in Warband Esports. Watch some vids on Warband Esports, you will see why people believe that the developers have focused on Esports. The foundations are there.

My thread about removal of kills was also deleted. Not sure who did it since i didn't get a notification but from the brief conversation with orion, it seems like the moderation team is always out for deleting threads no matter what.

Looking at you Orion, i made it clear my thread had a message behind it when i posted it, the absurdity of removing kills as a suggestion was done to compare the absurdity of taleworlds decision to remove deaths, you still haven't restored it.

So the moderators are receiving pressure from Taleworlds to shut the community up or what? Sounds shocking if its true. Also, are the moderators on Taleworlds payroll? Who chooses them? Who is incharge of the forums?

No, it is not "petty vindictiveness" to ask for people who don't seem to be doing their job to be fired. This is what happens when you do not do your job. "Petty vindictiveness" would be something like asking someone to be fired for a political opinion, which the community did not.

It may have helped if they specified who should be fired? I assumed he meant all the team, he didn't mention anything about the dope steering the sinking ship.

 

[Younes]

I don't think it has anything to do with taleworlds, it's just that they probably got sick of the MP section lmao

 

[Namakan]

Then where is Battle mode, it was replaced by Skrimish mode - the same rules and building blocks for the mode they used in Warband Esports. Watch some vids on Warband Esports, you will see why people believe that the developers have focused on Esports. The foundations are there.

you got me rolling.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

If they want to die on their hill it shouldnt be our problem.

 

[Greedalicious]

Then where is Battle mode, it was replaced by Skrimish mode - the same rules and building blocks for the mode they used in Warband Esports. Watch some vids on Warband Esports, you will see why people believe that the developers have focused on Esports. The foundations are there.

So the moderators are receiving pressure from Taleworlds to shut the community up or what? Sounds shocking if its true. Also, are the moderators on Taleworlds payroll? Who chooses them? Who is incharge of the forums?

It may have helped if they specified who should be fired? I assumed he meant all the team, he didn't mention anything about the dope steering the sinking ship.

I'm pretty familliar with Warband "esports," I've been there since it started.

Believing is a good word to use, because its definitly not based on facts.
Competitive players wanted Battle, we got skirmish, a heavily limited mode that removed the majority of possible drops, and evened out the playing field between a skilled player and an inferior player.
The class system Bannerlord uses heavily favors a casual playerbase, but fails to recognize what the casual playerbase really wants. The class system just sucks for everyone, fight me.

Not having spectator tools after 2 years of early access is the clearest sign I can think of that esports isnt even in their vocabulary. Without a way of showcasing the matches, there is no esport. Viewership is the key to making esport successfull, and so far TW hasnt put any emphasis on it.

No tournament prizes for tournaments, not even badges. Another key to making a successfull esport, people go where the money is.

Imbalances between classes hasnt been focused on, as an example we're still using class limits in BEAST, something we've never needed in Warband.

Skins now being introduced doesnt matter to a competitive player. If the gameplay is superb, we wouldnt care how our characters look like. We could be stickfigures and it'd be enjoyable. Skins is aimed towards a more casual playerbase, and dont get me wrong, casual players should be valued equally or even more than competitive, but its definitly not a competitive focus.

Lack of private servers, which would just benefit everyone obviously, but right now we have no way of properly testing and training. On warband we'd just go on a server, load up the map, increase the round timer to 9999 and look around. Or spawn in on arena, do some 2v2s, 3v3s, whatever. Cant do that. Not having access to a proper training ground is a massive issue. (I tried loading up maps using the map creator and it just crashes)

Lack of ranked and matchmaking is a must have to keep the competitive scene happy. Obviously we dont have the players for that right now, but if esports was the focus, this wouldve been prepared at launch.

No learning tools. In order to build a competitive scene, you need to teach people how to play. The game does a terrible job teaching you anything.

What I'm assuming you mean is features like
-The clan system (which isnt spesific to competitive, although I'll grant you thats the focus)
- Ingame voice (which doesnt really matter for competitive, we'll all be on discord anyway. Nice for casual and a potential ranked mode later on

Not sure what else really. Feel free to let me know what you see.

 

[Alyss]

imagine telling one of the most important caster of warband esports to "go watch warband esport videos". xD

 

[Orion]

Yeah it's a pretty poor look from @Orion to taunt people to "vote with their feet" when that is precisely what a massive number of players have done and that is why the multiplayer competitive community is dead.

I know personally that a great number of people such as @EbdanianAdmiral @Abuzut have quit the game due to the incompetency/inattention from Taleworlds on multiplayer, yet they still come to the Bannerlord forum section to see if anything has/will change (which of course it does not).

No, it is not "petty vindictiveness" to ask for people who don't seem to be doing their job to be fired. This is what happens when you do not do your job. "Petty vindictiveness" would be something like asking someone to be fired for a political opinion, which the community did not.

People are voting with their feet. That is why there are only around 30 active competitive players in North America during what should be one of the most active and alive periods of the game. Sad!

I voted, too. Few people were more stoked for BL MP than I was, but I haven't touched it since early 2020. I no longer have the game installed. You accurately described my interaction with this community as well, outside of moderation duties. I'm not taunting people to do something I would not, I'm advising them on what I have already done. I'm past getting upset by the glacial pace and--in my opinion--regressive direction of the multiplayer. There is nothing I can do to effect it which I have not tried. At this point, it is what it is and I'm just keeping an eye on SP and some mods.

Looking at you Orion, i made it clear my thread had a message behind it when i posted it, the absurdity of removing kills as a suggestion was done to compare the absurdity of taleworlds decision to remove deaths, you still haven't restored it.

I haven't restored it, but I didn't remove it, either. Overruling another moderator requires consensus, and I did bring up your claim promptly with other global moderators. We have lives, contrary to popular belief, so immediate responses shouldn't be expected.

Hes a moderator, hes not on Taleworlds payroll (volunteer?). I suspect he changed the name of my thread, as it may have sounded too accusatory for the forums - but he didn't close it

This is true, and all mods here are volunteers. We're from the community & for the community. Our affiliation with TW is surface-level. The rules as they are now weren't even written by TW, and they (mostly) predate all community managers.

I didn't change your thread name, btw.

Orion shut down the thread, threatening "don't do this again".

I think I covered all the misconceptions here so far, leaving this one for last. I don't make idle threats, and warnings should be heeded.

I'll leave this thread open so we can discuss the injustice of it all, but I may move it to the website/community board since it's about moderation more so than the game.

imagine telling one of the most important caster of warband esports to "go watch warband esport videos". xD

 

[Lagstro]

Then where is Battle mode, it was replaced by Skrimish mode - the same rules and building blocks for the mode they used in Warband Esports. Watch some vids on Warband Esports, you will see why people believe that the developers have focused on Esports. The foundations are there.

Don't be that guy. Don't blame this heaping pile of **** multiplayer experience on the competitive Warband community. We've been extremely vocal on the forums when it comes to asking for Battle mode to not only be included as a game mode in Bannerlord, but for it to be the premier competitive game mode over skirmish as well. We've literally been arguing about this since 2018 when Callum told us that there wouldn't be a single-life battle mode in Bannerlord. Don't believe me? Here is an example of the types of conversations that were being had on this topic literally multiple years ago when skirmish was still nothing but a concept https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...dated-info-and-discussion.375184/post-8940391

3-4 years later, still no battle mode. I don't understand where people get this idea that TW is heavily influenced by the Warband competitive community. TW has hardly ever interacted with the Warband competitive community. The one time they did was when they did the Battle of Bucharest, and when they did that, they threw aside the competitive format that the community had developed over many years and decided to run the tournament their own way. Obviously they are allowed to do as they please, but it just goes to show that TW has never really been in touch with the Warband community, and they tend to do whatever they want without really being concerned about the competitive community's thoughts & opinions. I'm not passing judgement on whether that is right or wrong, I'm simply stating how it is.

And just in case you didn't know, most competitive warband players have already given up hope on Bannerlord. Almost none play Bannerlord, and there's only a handful of competitive warband players that even lurk and post in the bannerlord section anymore these days. There's just no point. Everything that had to be said was said years ago. Most competitive warband players have either moved on to other games, or are still playing Warband to this day.

Also... Skirmish and the way competitive warband battle is played are absolutely not the same. Please don't ever say that again. It's actually insulting. I can hash out the fundamental differences between the two game modes for you if you actually care to know, but I've done it so many times at this point, I'd honestly rather not waste my time doing it again if it's just going to fall on deaf ears.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Don't be that guy. Don't blame this heaping pile of **** multiplayer experience on the competitive Warband community. We've been extremely vocal on the forums when it comes to asking for Battle mode to not only be included as a game mode in Bannerlord, but for it to be the premier competitive game mode over skirmish as well. We've literally been arguing about this since 2018 when Callum told us that there wouldn't be a single-life battle mode in Bannerlord. Don't believe me? Here is an example of the types of conversations that were being had on this topic literally multiple years ago when skirmish was still nothing but a concept https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...dated-info-and-discussion.375184/post-8940391

3-4 years later, still no battle mode. I don't understand where people get this idea that TW is heavily influenced by the Warband competitive community. TW has hardly ever interacted with the Warband competitive community. The one time they did was when they did the Battle of Bucharest, and when they did that, they threw aside the competitive format that the community had developed over many years and decided to run the tournament their own way. Obviously they are allowed to do as they please, but it just goes to show that TW has never really been in touch with the Warband community, and they tend to do whatever they want without really being concerned about the competitive community's thoughts & opinions. I'm not passing judgement on whether that is right or wrong, I'm simply stating how it is.

And just in case you didn't know, most competitive warband players have already given up hope on Bannerlord. Almost none play Bannerlord, and there's only a handful of competitive warband players that even lurk and post in the bannerlord section anymore these days. There's just no point. Everything that had to be said was said years ago. Most competitive warband players have either moved on to other games, or are still playing Warband to this day.

Also... Skirmish and the way competitive warband battle is played are absolutely not the same. Please don't ever say that again. It's actually insulting. I can hash out the fundamental differences between the two game modes for you if you actually care to know, but I've done it so many times at this point, I'd honestly rather not waste my time doing it again if it's just going to fall on deaf ears.

This!

 

[Askey]

/me eats hat.

I assumed Taleworlds intended Skirmish mode to be based off of Warband Esports - which is why i thought it was meant to be more competitive and why they left out Battle mode. And why the focus on this s****y mode?

"Don't be that guy. Don't blame this heaping pile of **** multiplayer experience on the competitive Warband community."
Not sure how I blamed this on competitive players, unless you guys are involved in the development of this game?

 

[Orion]

/me eats hat.

I assumed Taleworlds intended Skirmish mode to be based off of Warband Esports - which is why i thought it was meant to be more competitive and why they left out Battle mode. And why the focus on this s****y mode?

We wish TW had based anything in BL off of Warband's competitive scene. As far as I know, we've never gotten a clear answer on why lessons of the past were ignored and old mistakes were repeated.

 

[Tork789]

Turns out Orion didn't do any of it. And I almost started to like him.

 

[Namakan]

I'm pretty familliar with Warband "esports," I've been there since it started.

Spoiler