Open petition to remove couchlance from the game completely

Do you want to see couch lances removed from the game?


  • Total voters
    177

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Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Unless cav sees a weak spot, cav is never going to charge into the spearwall. He is going to wait for his inf to force the spearwall to turn around and switch to their sidearm. Then the feast starts.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Unless cav sees a weak spot, cav is never going to charge into the spearwall. He is going to wait for his inf to force the spearwall to turn around and switch to their sidearm. Then the feast starts.
yes, nerf cavs! they should not be allowed to wait for openings and be drawn into inf clumps by some sort of magnet!
 

Forsee

Veteran
I am puzzeled. A pointy stick is aimed at you at the terminal velocity of a galloping horse AND with the impulse of said horse including rider totalling 1 ton? And you are complaining, that this will take you out for good?

Isn't this the intention of heavy cav? Proposed counter: Blob together. Use spears. Brace. Get that goon off his saddle once he crashes into your formation. Try to kill his horse. (Provided he cannot maneuver around in INF like a hot knife in butter.), use cover, if you see those coming, if possible.

I think: balance has not its place here. One could question, why there are true heavy knights (horse, heavy armor, couchable lance) allowed in multiplayer skirmishes and what the map design could tell us about this. Either we have an open field engagement and then big units but also lance-wielding knights are totally viable or small skirmishes in villages or inside a fort where a mounted lancer should have no place.

Or rather: is that build (horse + couchable lance) destroying the fun in MP on current maps? And why? Should it be allowed?

But again, we seem to want to have it all at once AND please everyone...
Players don't want realism in this game, they want good balance and satisfying gameplay
 
Well...this will just lead to shifting the meta to another "OP" class, rinse and repeat. One of my solutions to the problem would be:
place some capture points inside a building or make buildings at least accessible. When I am thinking about that one MP map in the Aserai village, many matches I witnessed turned around the few riders picking off stragglers left and right or jousting themselves. Now what, if players could enter a house to evade a rider? That he must unmount to engage? Having a horse in skirmish gives you a big speed boost but also a good boost to your melee capabilities because of damage scaling with speed at almost no drawback. Not being able to fit through certain areas would be a drawback that would offset things a bit without changing otherwise logical mechanisms. Imagine horses getting hurt when colliding with something (or even rearing/crashing) so you have to ride more carefully. Imagine a rider being unsaddled because he hit a low tree branch at full speed. The main problem in my opinion is, that riders can almost ignore terrain and because of that, they are too good for the other classes. Maybe one should take a look at this.

The "enter house" thing also might encourage the use of smaller weapons instead of long one-shot weapons like two-handed swords and stuff. It is a never-ending debate about those as well...

Synopsis: If the rider gets/earns himself the opportunity the execute a couched lance charge - the current mechanism is plausible and well. The problem is: he gets this opportunity far too often - and this is a map-related problem and a problem of the way horses work in the game.
 
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Forsee

Veteran
there are many differences between somewhat balanced wb cav and bl monsters

1. less acceleration speed
2. avg thrust damage is about 30, they couldnt oneshot heavy inf with one single non couch hit, or deal 80 damage
3. lesser maneuverability, no wwss
4. they are rearing on every single branch or small rock even on lowest speeds
5. they usually had no gold for heavy armour\heavy horses
6. bumps were more consistent and easier to play around, you couldnt lay on the ground for 5 seconds
7. spear hits were slower, cav couldnt spam attack and outspam infantry
8. horses were less fragile
9. you could only couch someone in front of you, in 30' sector
10. couches were harder to control
11. couches were only 3-4s, so you had to choose the timing
12. couches needed 1-2s preparation time
13. couches had less damage, usually you couldn't oneshot someone running away from you, ms bonus was not high enough
14. couches needed higher ms, that caused less horses' maneuverability on couch
15. couches had cooldown
16. spears were great against cav
17. 1h weapons dealt reasonable damage to horses
18. a lot of maps were bad for cav, they had unreachable stairs or small towers
19. ThEy HaD No ReSpAwNs
 

hoonii

Knight
2. avg thrust damage is about 30, they couldnt oneshot heavy inf with one single non couch hit, or deal 80 damage
noooo how can it be that armor actually does something nooo
noo i liek the way it is nauuww i like doing the same damage i do to a skirmisher to a legionary
 

Golodir

Banned
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
there are many differences between somewhat balanced wb cav and bl monsters

1. less acceleration speed
2. avg thrust damage is about 30, they couldnt oneshot heavy inf with one single non couch hit, or deal 80 damage
3. lesser maneuverability, no wwss
4. they are rearing on every single branch or small rock even on lowest speeds
5. they usually had no gold for heavy armour\heavy horses
6. bumps were more consistent and easier to play around, you couldnt lay on the ground for 5 seconds
7. spear hits were slower, cav couldnt spam attack and outspam infantry
8. horses were less fragile
9. you could only couch someone in front of you, in 30' sector
10. couches were harder to control
11. couches were only 3-4s, so you had to choose the timing
12. couches needed 1-2s preparation time
13. couches had less damage, usually you couldn't oneshot someone running away from you, ms bonus was not high enough
14. couches needed higher ms, that caused less horses' maneuverability on couch
15. couches had cooldown
16. spears were great against cav
17. 1h weapons dealt reasonable damage to horses
18. a lot of maps were bad for cav, they had unreachable stairs or small towers
19. ThEy HaD No ReSpAwNs
apply all of it instead of removing the couch lance and we can have a somewhat good game instead of trash one we're currently playing
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
there are many differences between somewhat balanced wb cav and bl monsters

1. less acceleration speed
2. avg thrust damage is about 30, they couldnt oneshot heavy inf with one single non couch hit, or deal 80 damage
3. lesser maneuverability, no wwss
4. they are rearing on every single branch or small rock even on lowest speeds
5. they usually had no gold for heavy armour\heavy horses
6. bumps were more consistent and easier to play around, you couldnt lay on the ground for 5 seconds
7. spear hits were slower, cav couldnt spam attack and outspam infantry
8. horses were less fragile
9. you could only couch someone in front of you, in 30' sector
10. couches were harder to control
11. couches were only 3-4s, so you had to choose the timing
12. couches needed 1-2s preparation time
13. couches had less damage, usually you couldn't oneshot someone running away from you, ms bonus was not high enough
14. couches needed higher ms, that caused less horses' maneuverability on couch
15. couches had cooldown
16. spears were great against cav
17. 1h weapons dealt reasonable damage to horses
18. a lot of maps were bad for cav, they had unreachable stairs or small towers
19. ThEy HaD No ReSpAwNs
2. You could do lot of damage with full speed and head hit, but in BL it seems even bad stabs result in a lot of damage.
3. The maneuverability curve was steeper, more at slow speeds and less at high.. which was better.
4. Speed threshold for rear on impact should be lowered.
5. Same for infantry, seems light to medium troops balance was better
6. You talking about knockdowns, bumps are harder in BL and especially slashing with 1h is hard af
7. Thats right on the money, cav in BL is a sewing machine and i dont know why this is or should be
9-15. Yes adjust couch
17. Could be more, but light cav seems pretty balanced only heavy is a pain as infantry with slashing.
18. yes
19. No argument because others do too, and every body and his dog knows battle is superior to skirmish, except TW


@OurGloriousLeader krex is not a Div A cav, i dont see those crying about couching beeing too risky against archers
 

Gotha

Adimi h.c.
Baron
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Maybe they should just start with a cooldown and a time limit before they remove it completely.
That would be alright imo.
(Unfortunately we have to wait like three months even for the slightest changes, and after three month every single thing will go to the ****ing beta branch where we have no server (nor players) at all unless u want to test siege maps.)
 

DainMorgot

Sergeant
In warband it made sense, bannerlord is so far off warband that couch is just an ultimate spammable ability at this point, across the vast utility that horses also get on top.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
I am puzzeled. A pointy stick is aimed at you at the terminal velocity of a galloping horse AND with the impulse of said horse including rider totalling 1 ton? And you are complaining, that this will take you out for good?

Isn't this the intention of heavy cav? Proposed counter: Blob together. Use spears. Brace. Get that goon off his saddle once he crashes into your formation. Try to kill his horse. (Provided he cannot maneuver around in INF like a hot knife in butter.), use cover, if you see those coming, if possible.

I think: balance has not its place here. One could question, why there are true heavy knights (horse, heavy armor, couchable lance) allowed in multiplayer skirmishes and what the map design could tell us about this. Either we have an open field engagement and then big units but also lance-wielding knights are totally viable or small skirmishes in villages or inside a fort where a mounted lancer should have no place.

Or rather: is that build (horse + couchable lance) destroying the fun in MP on current maps? And why? Should it be allowed?

But again, we seem to want to have it all at once AND please everyone...
In the analysis you make you take but a fraction of the total concept. It's like saying throwing beer cans on the street is right because it saves you time. Yeah it does but what about all the other aspects?

You should watch some videos on couch lancing and see how 3 people get couched by 1 dude in just a few seconds.
 
You should watch some videos on couch lancing and see how 3 people get couched by 1 dude in just a few seconds.
And THIS should by any means not be possible. But still this would not invalidate that a couching attack is deadly and still should be. It only seems that it is possible far too often in the game which disturbs multiplayer. On that, I am with you. The analysis should go the way "why is this player able to perform 3 couching attacks within that small timeframe?" and not "is couched damage too high?"
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
And THIS should by any means not be possible. But still this would not invalidate that a couching attack is deadly and still should be. It only seems that it is possible far too often in the game which disturbs multiplayer. On that, I am with you.
I agree on the list that Forsee showed us, its a good solution. But if TaleWorlds are unable to do this, then just remove it alltogether
 

//kōdā

Regular
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think friendly fire for cav bumps (+ knock down) should be enabled as well. Cav can do easy charges without having to think about their teammates (even as a teammate inf this is quite annoying though, as you get constantly pushed around and crucial strikes getting blocked by their fat ass horses).
May sound counterproductive for inf at first, but like that cav would have to play much more tactically and cautiously, instead of constant x pressing YOLO charges around the map.
 

Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think friendly fire for cav bumps (+ knock down) should be enabled as well. Cav can do easy charges without having to think about their teammates (even as a teammate inf this is quite annoying though, as you get constantly pushed around and crucial strikes getting blocked by their fat ass horses).
May sound counterproductive for inf at first, but like that cav would have to play much more tactically and cautiously, instead of constant x pressing YOLO charges around the map.
Agreed.
At least for Skirmish
In more casual modes like TDM or Siege it might just frustrate your team mates
 
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think friendly fire for cav bumps (+ knock down) should be enabled as well. Cav can do easy charges without having to think about their teammates (even as a teammate inf this is quite annoying though, as you get constantly pushed around and crucial strikes getting blocked by their fat ass horses).
May sound counterproductive for inf at first, but like that cav would have to play much more tactically and cautiously, instead of constant x pressing YOLO charges around the map.
I made the same point already. People were building straw-mans around that and were like "Trolls are gonna abuse it"
If a troll wants to **** you over he has enough ways to do so already. Cavalry friendly fire won't change that.
 
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