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Callum

Community Lead
Hello to everyone!

A subset of the total conversion modding community wrote an open letter from the developers of mod teams looking to create a "Multiplayer" mode in general, regarding the "Server" section in the latest "Future Plans" attached messages from Bannerlord developers about some of our serious issues. Wrote. The Open Letter written by Jance, who is in the Kingdoms of Arda team, was received positively by Taleworlds developers, and they brought innovations that will lead to more innovations in the development stages. However, here we wanted to convey our concerns about this issue to TaleWorlds through this letter, unlike some parts of the "Future Plans" section.

We are aware that especially Tournament/League owners raise a lot of topics about "Servers" in the community and we know that this bothers Taleworlds Developers as well because now they want these "Servers" to be released as soon as they can; and they are doing their best, but you know " As Callum stated in the "Future Plans" section.




We all know that Taleworlds has been slow in development in the Multiplayer part because it has given priority to Singleplayer and the Singleplayer part is subject to the most intense updates in this regard. However, we know that Dejan hosts special events and provides "Event" support to the community, of course, we are grateful to dear Dejan for this!

We thought and moved on this descriptive text for a long time, talked to many mod communities and understood the concerns of mod projects that want to successfully continue their testing phase in Multiplayer mod projects, and we had to write an open letter to Taleworlds about it.

Here is the link to the full letter.
We welcome all kinds of encouragement, comments and support that you need to express your criticism, support and suggestions in this topic.


Sincerely and respectfully,
The Total-Conversion Community

Hey guys,

Thanks for taking the time to get together to prepare and share your feedback regarding custom servers and multiplayer modding with us. We’ve started discussing it and will take it into account as development continues.

To directly respond to your primary concern shared in the preface of your letter (and which you again explained further on in the letter as being the most important concern of Mod Communities), we want to say categorically that we plan to support multiplayer modding, including custom assets... but it will take some time.

As stated in the Future Plans blog, we have a number of features that we are currently working on for multiplayer, with custom servers being on that list. We understand that many of you would like to see server files and modding support features sooner, but unfortunately, they come with their own challenges and complications, and so we made our plans accordingly.

It isn’t quite as simple as reverting to one of the other suggestions you put forward as a potential solution either. If we take ‘Re-enable the “Create a Game” function’ as an example: the feature is mainly used for debugging, isn't stable, doesn't work at all with a number of game modes, and uses our servers. This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix. Instead, we would rather focus that energy on the ultimate goal of custom servers - because these will be the real foundation for multiplayer modding.

As a final note, we appreciate the amount of time and effort you have put into laying the groundwork for your multiplayer mods and we know that you are eager to crack on with your projects. And just to reiterate our stance on modding: we like it and want to do what we can to support it (as shown by many of the recent modding related changes to the game and modding tools!). We just ask that you give us a little more time so that we are better equipped and prepared to support you when the time comes to share server files and open up multiplayer to modding.
 

Errayn

Knight at Arms
It isn’t quite as simple as reverting to one of the other suggestions you put forward as a potential solution either. If we take ‘Re-enable the “Create a Game” function’ as an example: the feature is mainly used for debugging, isn't stable, doesn't work at all with a number of game modes, and uses our servers. This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix. Instead, we would rather focus that energy on the ultimate goal of custom servers - because these will be the real foundation for multiplayer modding.
May i ask? how it uses your "servers" when i create a game. Why i have 0 ping for example when i host it with that tool. if they are using taleworlds "servers"? Or for example how your "servers" reach my modded content to use your servers?. Create a game function does not uses your servers. You should stop lying to the community as Community Manager. Only server people would need a simple main lobby server not servers and that is If you would release that "tool" in different branch. You would not need it in main branch for example (since it already haves a master lobby server).

Also it does work with all a number of game modes that is implemented and offers more than official ones also offers custom maps etc.
Even after i wrote custom maps. Something came to my mind, How the **** taleworlds "servers" have my custom map that is only on my pc to host a server on it, how?

Also, you dont need to revert resources to that. If you fix something on main you fix it on create a game. They are not seperate games.

This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix.

Thats not a fix, Create a game is a feature also we have in warband. Join a game or Create a game.
The reasons Taleworlds Multiplayer Development team to deactivate that is known, the reasons to push it "after release" and your lies above proves that again.

image.png

a screenshot from today as i am writing this.

Taleworlds MP dev teams future plans killed multiplayer enough already. Thats your future plans since multiplayer beta (more than 2 years ago) and i see your "servers" thats so precious that has 0 players on them. Not even 100 players on them globaly.

edit:

In the end we see globaly without being denied, taleworlds don't let People to host servers in game intentionally from the start and Intentionally delaying the modding community and killing his own multiplayer by doing so. Good job Taleworlds.
 
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Lucon

Subforum Moderator
WBWF&SNWVC
Hey guys,

Thanks for taking the time to get together to prepare and share your feedback regarding custom servers and multiplayer modding with us. We’ve started discussing it and will take it into account as development continues.

To directly respond to your primary concern shared in the preface of your letter (and which you again explained further on in the letter as being the most important concern of Mod Communities), we want to say categorically that we plan to support multiplayer modding, including custom assets... but it will take some time.

As stated in the Future Plans blog, we have a number of features that we are currently working on for multiplayer, with custom servers being on that list. We understand that many of you would like to see server files and modding support features sooner, but unfortunately, they come with their own challenges and complications, and so we made our plans accordingly.

It isn’t quite as simple as reverting to one of the other suggestions you put forward as a potential solution either. If we take ‘Re-enable the “Create a Game” function’ as an example: the feature is mainly used for debugging, isn't stable, doesn't work at all with a number of game modes, and uses our servers. This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix. Instead, we would rather focus that energy on the ultimate goal of custom servers - because these will be the real foundation for multiplayer modding.

As a final note, we appreciate the amount of time and effort you have put into laying the groundwork for your multiplayer mods and we know that you are eager to crack on with your projects. And just to reiterate our stance on modding: we like it and want to do what we can to support it (as shown by many of the recent modding related changes to the game and modding tools!). We just ask that you give us a little more time so that we are better equipped and prepared to support you when the time comes to share server files and open up multiplayer to modding.

Callum, first of all, thank you for your interest and concern. I have something to tell you about your comment. First of all, we made it clear why this had to happen, and you said it would take some time, and we know why. Also, thanks for everything and as for the other issues in your comments.

You stated that it will take time, how much time is involved in this matter? And when is this timing the earliest access date?

It isn’t quite as simple as reverting to one of the other suggestions you put forward as a potential solution either. If we take ‘Re-enable the “Create a Game” function’ as an example: the feature is mainly used for debugging, isn't stable, doesn't work at all with a number of game modes, and uses our servers. This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix. Instead, we would rather focus that energy on the ultimate goal of custom servers - because these will be the real foundation for multiplayer modding.

As a final note, we appreciate the amount of time and effort you have put into laying the groundwork for your multiplayer mods and we know that you are eager to crack on with your projects. And just to reiterate our stance on modding: we like it and want to do what we can to support it (as shown by many of the recent modding related changes to the game and modding tools!). We just ask that you give us a little more time so that we are better equipped and prepared to support you when the time comes to share server files and open up multiplayer to modding.

You gave an answer to this as an example only "Custom Server" in our Solutions section, but you didn't say much about our other solution suggestions. For example, things related to the use of servers hosted directly by TW for the development of mod teams that need it?
As a final note, we appreciate the amount of time and effort you have put into laying the groundwork for your multiplayer mods and we know that you are eager to crack on with your projects. And just to reiterate our stance on modding: we like it and want to do what we can to support it (as shown by many of the recent modding related changes to the game and modding tools!). We just ask that you give us a little more time so that we are better equipped and prepared to support you when the time comes to share server files and open up multiplayer to modding.

We need to be patient, we know this, we have been patient since 2012 and we have been patient since the Alpha process and we are still patient. And what kind of time do we have to be patient? For God's sake say this, these people want to walk into the office with their pitchfork :smile: As the Sword & Musket team, we received some answers, but I would appreciate it if you would reply to the additional questions we asked.

How long do we have to wait? (It would not be right to give a period of time, it will seem as if you have made a promise, but you will give the most accurate information in the process and as an authority on this subject.)
 

Mushbeast

Knight
Hey guys,

Thanks for taking the time to get together to prepare and share your feedback regarding custom servers and multiplayer modding with us. We’ve started discussing it and will take it into account as development continues.

To directly respond to your primary concern shared in the preface of your letter (and which you again explained further on in the letter as being the most important concern of Mod Communities), we want to say categorically that we plan to support multiplayer modding, including custom assets... but it will take some time.

As stated in the Future Plans blog, we have a number of features that we are currently working on for multiplayer, with custom servers being on that list. We understand that many of you would like to see server files and modding support features sooner, but unfortunately, they come with their own challenges and complications, and so we made our plans accordingly.

It isn’t quite as simple as reverting to one of the other suggestions you put forward as a potential solution either. If we take ‘Re-enable the “Create a Game” function’ as an example: the feature is mainly used for debugging, isn't stable, doesn't work at all with a number of game modes, and uses our servers. This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix. Instead, we would rather focus that energy on the ultimate goal of custom servers - because these will be the real foundation for multiplayer modding.

As a final note, we appreciate the amount of time and effort you have put into laying the groundwork for your multiplayer mods and we know that you are eager to crack on with your projects. And just to reiterate our stance on modding: we like it and want to do what we can to support it (as shown by many of the recent modding related changes to the game and modding tools!). We just ask that you give us a little more time so that we are better equipped and prepared to support you when the time comes to share server files and open up multiplayer to modding.
I appreciate your point of view on the matter and can understand where you're coming from, but I don't think many people have any faith in your 'future plans' at this point. Stuff like skins and an emote system won't fix the underlying cause for why the multiplayer is bad.

At the very least, I think you should consider putting up some more custom (official-custom, hosted by Taleworlds) servers as I haven't even been able to test Skirmish yet on a reasonable ping, the mode in which majority of the development effort goes into. Places like South America haven't had any sort of servers since day one, and the question is always danced around or unanswered. It's really kind of unethical.

I'm also a little bit suss of the entire process considering all I've heard about the community custom server project that was shut down.
 

Maroon

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix. Instead, we would rather focus that energy on the ultimate goal of custom servers - because these will be the real foundation for multiplayer modding.
Does this mean that Bannerlord will no longer have the option to locally host a server from in game, like Warband has?

We understand that many of you would like to see server files and modding support features sooner, but unfortunately, they come with their own challenges and complications, and so we made our plans accordingly.
I understand that this is the case, and that you are not able to change your company's direction in this easily. However, the current direction of TW is extremely detrimental to the multiplayer community, which has already been damaged past the point of fully restoring (with the amount of dedicated community members and leaders leaving the game permanently). I feel like there are two ways to solve this:
  1. Shifting your priority from Skirmish/Captain to supporting custom servers (and the accompanying game modes) as soon as possible. This means releasing server files before the full release of the game, just like how the mod tools are already released. I fully understand that this has a lot of technical challenges, and I would not expect it to work flawlessly from the get go, but at least that gives us a way to work with you. This would mean:
    1. Leave Skirmish and Captain as they are now: functional, not fully balanced, but playable.
    2. Identify the issues currently blocking the release of custom server files (and sharing those issues with the community), and working on those.
    3. Finish a first version of Battle (or whatever it's called in Bannerlord).
    4. Release an early version of the custom server files with support for Siege, TDM, Duel, and possibly Battle.
    5. Improve the (at that point) released game modes.
    6. Once the steps above have increased the amount of players, refocus on ranked matchmaking/progression for Skirmish and Captain.
  2. If the company's upper management is absolutely dead set on staying the current course against all better judgement, the second option is to instead completely communicate to the community what your plans are. When do you consider multiplayer finished? What game modes do you have planned? In what order are you planning to tackle those features. Before you say it, the Future Plans article and the Statement Regarding Plans For MP do not do this. These posts only tell us your short term plans: the things you expect to include in the next patch or two. I am referring to the scope of Bannerlord MP version 1.0.
If neither of these options can be provided, you will have to watch the MP community continue to die a slow death, along with all mods that planned on having MP content. No, creating a progression system will not make players interested in your multiplayer if the basics are not there yet. No, creating skins will not increase your player base. Only the above two options (with the first one being the far, far better one) will be able to do that.

And just to reiterate our stance on modding: we like it and want to do what we can to support it (as shown by many of the recent modding related changes to the game and modding tools!).
If you want to do what you can to support (multiplayer) modding: at the very least release a complete roadmap.

We just ask that you give us a little more time so that we are better equipped and prepared to support you when the time comes to share server files and open up multiplayer to modding.
Our main point is: the more time you take, the less your community will be motivated to mod your game, and the fewer players will be able to enjoy it. We don't expect you to release the custom server files tomorrow: we do expect you to realise that your current prioritization and lack of communication is not right.
 

Alex Ander

Recruit
I am part creator of the letter and one of the developers of the Deluge II: With Fire & Sword. For my part, I would like to thank you very much for your answer.
The friends above have already said a lot. I'd like to expand on Mushbeast's statement a bit. In general, I do not entirely agree that the native MP is unequivocally bad. There is still a lot of room for improvement - that's obvious - but that's not the main cause of the problem in my opinion. Looking at your policy from the point of view of the person who has organized the M&B community for many years, I come to the conclusion that you do not fully understand the natural symbiosis between the native module and the modifications that exist around it. Both of these things are mutually supportive and cannot function fully effectively without each other. This is the nature and specificity of M&B and it is not possible to change it.
Really - contrary to what you may think - we are not horny amateurs with a wishful, demanding attitude. Many of us have experience with professional game dev and we can be understanding about many things. The basic problem is that we do not see the TW openness to any agreement, we do not see any attempt to find any compromise solutions. This causes distrust and rage to increase. Believe me - I really know what I'm saying - you have to open up to a real dialogue, some real compromise. Otherwise, everyone - TW and mod developers - will miss a huge opportunity. People draw conclusions based on the facts, and you can't fix it with just words.
 

josefvin

Sergeant Knight
WB
Our main point is: the more time you take, the less your community will be motivated to mod your game, and the fewer players will be able to enjoy it. We don't expect you to release the custom server files tomorrow: we do expect you to realise that your current prioritization and lack of communication is not right.
This

Really - contrary to what you may think - we are not horny amateurs with a wishful, demanding attitude. Many of us have experience with professional game dev and we can be understanding about many things. The basic problem is that we do not see the TW openness to any agreement, we do not see any attempt to find any compromise solutions. This causes distrust and rage to increase. Believe me - I really know what I'm saying - you have to open up to a real dialogue, some real compromise. Otherwise, everyone - TW and mod developers - will miss a huge opportunity. People draw conclusions based on the facts, and you can't fix it with just words.
Aaaaand this.
 

thefirst1nvad3r

Section Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I really don't understand what TW priorities are.
The game is still distant from completion. Some features are broken, others are missing.
TW company has 100+ employees, millions of copies sold, but it's acting like a newborn dude in the videogame industry. I don't understand why, after Warband, Viking Conquest and other amazing mods they still don't know what features putting in or how to do it.
Multiplayer servers are nearly empty. The game is unbalanced, many things are showing (level, matching, etc...) but in fact they're missing. MP is the only thing that keeps some users to play at this moment, 'cause the game is pretty the same from March 2020.

I really don't understand what's really going in TW. Maybe they work in secret like the CIA, maybe it's all a mess, like the discord server. But at this time it doesn't really matter: after 10 years you can't just say "we're working on it" when the only ones that are working seem to be the modders.
 

dijiTurk

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
Delay in continuous development/r&d efforts is normal. I can't be mad at talewords or mp modders in this topic(custom server files) .
 

HDBrosky

Recruit
WBWF&SNW
This open letter was made pretty well, In my opinion, getting private servers is crucial for the community long term wise
 
Since Taleworlds isn't able to fulfill its own community's requests, they can't make us wait for custom servers for pointless micro transaction system or any other thing. I mean they can't satisfy us by simple features, why wouldn't they rather give this chance to modding community and focus on singeplayer? It is not rocket physic, modding team is providing requests of community way better than Tw. E.g. Bannerlord Online. Bannerlord Online team is about to add well prepared clan system while Taleworlds is asleep. I really don't get the point, can't they just add the custom servers and leave multiplayer as it is. While they are focusing on singleplayer, some of the custom server owners will balance the game accordingly players, and when Taleworlds finished improving singleplayer, they could easily implement balance issues and maps made by community. After Brytenwalda's release, they took it and made a new dlc. Why not same / similar thing again? If you have to take community's stuffs to satisfy your own base community, then just do it. I just want to play the game without balancing issues or goddamn high ping.
 
@Callum Even if the date you give us is really far from now, at least we will be able to adjust to that. No matter the progress the TaleWorlds team has made on private servers, let us know. We support the game, that's why we are on here, not because we hate it, but because we are upset at the potential that is not being released! Any information on private servers would be welcomed at this point, and thank you for replying to some of the questions people had earlier.
 
@Callum Even if the date you give us is really far from now, at least we will be able to adjust to that. No matter the progress the TaleWorlds team has made on private servers, let us know. We support the game, that's why we are on here, not because we hate it, but because we are upset at the potential that is not being released! Any information on private servers would be welcomed at this point, and thank you for replying to some of the questions people had earlier.
This. Communication needs improvement.
 

Lucon

Subforum Moderator
WBWF&SNWVC
The issue is to change TW's internal schedule. As much as I agree with this, the requests in this letter were never going to be done.

I don't agree with you man.

Ok, even though they want to move steadily on the roadmaps they have set, it is possible that Taleworlds will break from that point of view and we mod communities can reasonably fulfill their wishes. How much they want it or not is directly up to them. Callum's statement above said we understand your concerns but this is how our work is progressing on the Multiplayer side please be a little patient, we will do something for you but unfortunately we don't have a good time for mod developers.

Now we will have to wait a full year. Although this 1 year is a bit good for the Sword & Musket mod project for us, it is also critically important that we try some things in Multiplayer and test the performances accordingly. We are talking about a mod project with literally thousands of followers.
 
Late to this, but yeah I wholeheartedly with what OP stated. The multiplayer and modding communities have always been the heart and soul of Mount and Blade, yes single player is important as well, but the former two shouldn't be neglected over the latter. Every official Warband DLC Taleworlds released, being NW and Viking Conquest, started off as mods before transitioning into official DLC. Point being, not only are mods a vital factor in keeping the community alive, but they're also highly profitable for Taleworlds themselves. It's in everyone's best interests that Taleworlds make more of an effort to work with modders as well as the multiplayer community. The game is extremely stale right now when it comes to anything multiplayer related, to the point where practically nobody even bothers playing. Mods and multiplayer prioritization would fix the issue almost immediately.
 

Maroon

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
Hey guys,

Thanks for taking the time to get together to prepare and share your feedback regarding custom servers and multiplayer modding with us. We’ve started discussing it and will take it into account as development continues.

To directly respond to your primary concern shared in the preface of your letter (and which you again explained further on in the letter as being the most important concern of Mod Communities), we want to say categorically that we plan to support multiplayer modding, including custom assets... but it will take some time.

As stated in the Future Plans blog, we have a number of features that we are currently working on for multiplayer, with custom servers being on that list. We understand that many of you would like to see server files and modding support features sooner, but unfortunately, they come with their own challenges and complications, and so we made our plans accordingly.

It isn’t quite as simple as reverting to one of the other suggestions you put forward as a potential solution either. If we take ‘Re-enable the “Create a Game” function’ as an example: the feature is mainly used for debugging, isn't stable, doesn't work at all with a number of game modes, and uses our servers. This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix. Instead, we would rather focus that energy on the ultimate goal of custom servers - because these will be the real foundation for multiplayer modding.

As a final note, we appreciate the amount of time and effort you have put into laying the groundwork for your multiplayer mods and we know that you are eager to crack on with your projects. And just to reiterate our stance on modding: we like it and want to do what we can to support it (as shown by many of the recent modding related changes to the game and modding tools!). We just ask that you give us a little more time so that we are better equipped and prepared to support you when the time comes to share server files and open up multiplayer to modding.
Since it's been pretty much a week, I think it's safe to assume you're once again posting a one-and-done? No further conversation, just... drop in to say "nope" and then never return?
 
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