One Small Step for Amateur Space Travel
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Familyguy1
Sergeant Knight
A family car is $64,000 car? Maybe if you want a BMW X5...
tyrannicide
Knight
Space is gonna get crowded.
Also, where's LordBurgress when you need him?
Also, where's LordBurgress when you need him?
Sir Saladin
Count
A human space launch vehicle is still a giant rocket that you sit on top of, it only makes sense if you are willing to die for your country because that is very crazy no matter how many times it has been done and besides that we are only talking about orbit within Earth's atmosphere, that's boring. Boring daredevils, they should stand on the wings of a biplane instead.
Eluqqa
Sergeant Knight
This is just a suborbital rocket and won't get anyone to orbit. Neat, but mostly inconsequential to spaceflight.
Saladin, why's it crazy? Is flying through the air in a thin aluminum tube at 800 kph also madness to you?
Saladin, why's it crazy? Is flying through the air in a thin aluminum tube at 800 kph also madness to you?
This is like an ancient savannah hunter-gatherer considering the rest of the world and deeming it useless. Space has everything humans need in far greater quantities than Earth, even just within the solar system. It's not easy to settle, but once you do you get access to all those resources and your potential for population and economical growth is nigh-unlimited. The Earth is a nice place but very limited in terms of space and resources. When you build your first self-sufficient space habitat that can build more habitats, there's no particular reason to ever stop building more.Oyipggy said:
Sir Saladin
Count
Yes, I can see it now a massive migration through outer space of BP executives and American Congressmen terra forming Mars with giant suit cases full of money in order to preserve the human race. If only Lorne Greene the leader of Battlestar Galactica and the Ponderosa Ranch could have lived to see this glorious footnote in human history.
Oyipggy
Master Knight
Eluqqa said:
Where? They found like three drops of water on Mars and all the scientists jizzed everywhere. My belief is that everyone needs to stop looking at space and just fix our problems right now, rather than just assuming someone else will take care of it. That's what saying "Space is the future of humans!" is basically doing.
Sir Saladin said:
You could say that Mars would turn into a great bonanza for mankind.
Eluqqa
Sergeant Knight
Um, a few drops? They found enough water to immerse the entire planet in a 10 meter deep ocean.Oyipggy said:
Source
Saturn's rings are basically 30 quintillion tonnes of water. Many smaller bodies such as our Moon contain smaller reserves. Any ore or other material we might need exists in copious quantities on convenient, low gravity bodies.
Expansion to space and fixing our problems here are not mutually exclusive. We shouldn't abandon Earth. Still, if we don't expand into space, I think a more likely scenario is stagnation and a slow decline than any sort of ascension towards utopia. Is limiting ourselves to Earth's space and resources really conducive to fixing our problems?
Noddin
Sergeant at Arms
I think what's great about someone doing this besides NASA is that it's a possible route for some competition. So long as one organization is behind any given product, the cost of the product will skyrocket while any knew technologies will stagnate. In this case the technologies have stagnated due to the high prices of the technologies and the fact it's the government doing it. If nothing else, it'll be cheaper to build spacecraft if there are more organizations trying to do so.
I agree with Elugga about the resources. The problem is, unless it's profitable to begin space exploration, it isn't going to get to the point where we can farm some resources. Tourism is one step towards this profit, and the new technologies that should rise out of a competitive space market should eventually lead to us farming those resources.
If we figure out a cost-effective way of gathering solar energy form orbit then I can guarantee space travel will become commonplace and before we know it, they'll have shoved an asteroid into orbit around earth (one that sends it spiraling further away from earth is completely safe) and mining it for all it's worth. The next gold rush may very well be in space, though not sure about possibility of gold being in an asteroid due to the chemistry but there could be a chunk of a planet floating out there full of it.
I agree with Elugga about the resources. The problem is, unless it's profitable to begin space exploration, it isn't going to get to the point where we can farm some resources. Tourism is one step towards this profit, and the new technologies that should rise out of a competitive space market should eventually lead to us farming those resources.
If we figure out a cost-effective way of gathering solar energy form orbit then I can guarantee space travel will become commonplace and before we know it, they'll have shoved an asteroid into orbit around earth (one that sends it spiraling further away from earth is completely safe) and mining it for all it's worth. The next gold rush may very well be in space, though not sure about possibility of gold being in an asteroid due to the chemistry but there could be a chunk of a planet floating out there full of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power
Eluqqa
Sergeant Knight
Profitability is a big issue, yes. It's not a reason we shouldn't do space colonization, but it's an obstacle.
I'll engage in a bit of wild speculation here.
Still, we may be able to inch our way out there. First you have commercial, profitable space launch and satellites. We're already there. Then a company begins operating orbital tugs with high-efficiency ion or plasma rockets (we already have these technologies) that can lift the satellites to geostationary orbit from low orbit cheaper than a chemical rocket. The satellite industry thrives, and the likes of NASA make use of the tug services too for their science missions. Now someone gets the idea that they could mine propellant for the tugs and other spacecraft from the Moon or perhaps near-Earth asteroids. The energy required to go there and bring the mined propellant back is substantially less (2-6 km/s delta v as opposed to 9 km/s) than the energy required to lift it up from Earth surface, so they can afford to sell it cheap to the spacecraft operators. It'll take a while to break even, but it'll profit.
Now we have a transport infrastructure to the Moon and a bunch of asteroids. There's a huge abundance of metals and we're already there! Someone starts manufacturing spare parts in space, simple items at first. This might be when human workers are really needed in space as the industrial operations get more and more complex. They'll work there for perhaps a week or a month at a time, then return home to Earth. There are plenty of people who want to experience space and the pay isn't bad either.
There's a supply of metals now. The secondary industries arrive and start producing everything from rocket engines to eventually entire satellites and spacecraft. Way cheaper to ferry them to their destination if you don't have to launch them from Earth. By now there's a lot of people working in space, perhaps some even living there, and there begins to form a market for the tertiary industries. Those staying in space for extensive periods of time want their bars, barbers and strip clubs too. People will settle down as the industrial centers begin to resemble small cities. Some will live there for the rest of their lives, they may be better places than where ever they lived on Earth. Some unfortunates came there seeking that promise and now can't afford to go back.
Still, now you have space colonies, all within Earth's orbital neighborhood. Earth's nations may choose to try to rule over the colonies, or they may show indifference. Expansion from here on doesn't need to profit the US or China anymore, it has to profit the colonies. This is a lot easier to do than the initial push to space as they are already up there. Going to Mars is easier for an orbital colony than reaching orbit is to an earthbound nation.
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This might not be anything how it goes and the whole thing might not even ever happen. (which would be sad)
Don't take it too seriously, I just wanted to illustrate how I imagine it might go in a hopefully plausible scenario.
I'll engage in a bit of wild speculation here.
Still, we may be able to inch our way out there. First you have commercial, profitable space launch and satellites. We're already there. Then a company begins operating orbital tugs with high-efficiency ion or plasma rockets (we already have these technologies) that can lift the satellites to geostationary orbit from low orbit cheaper than a chemical rocket. The satellite industry thrives, and the likes of NASA make use of the tug services too for their science missions. Now someone gets the idea that they could mine propellant for the tugs and other spacecraft from the Moon or perhaps near-Earth asteroids. The energy required to go there and bring the mined propellant back is substantially less (2-6 km/s delta v as opposed to 9 km/s) than the energy required to lift it up from Earth surface, so they can afford to sell it cheap to the spacecraft operators. It'll take a while to break even, but it'll profit.
Now we have a transport infrastructure to the Moon and a bunch of asteroids. There's a huge abundance of metals and we're already there! Someone starts manufacturing spare parts in space, simple items at first. This might be when human workers are really needed in space as the industrial operations get more and more complex. They'll work there for perhaps a week or a month at a time, then return home to Earth. There are plenty of people who want to experience space and the pay isn't bad either.
There's a supply of metals now. The secondary industries arrive and start producing everything from rocket engines to eventually entire satellites and spacecraft. Way cheaper to ferry them to their destination if you don't have to launch them from Earth. By now there's a lot of people working in space, perhaps some even living there, and there begins to form a market for the tertiary industries. Those staying in space for extensive periods of time want their bars, barbers and strip clubs too. People will settle down as the industrial centers begin to resemble small cities. Some will live there for the rest of their lives, they may be better places than where ever they lived on Earth. Some unfortunates came there seeking that promise and now can't afford to go back.
Still, now you have space colonies, all within Earth's orbital neighborhood. Earth's nations may choose to try to rule over the colonies, or they may show indifference. Expansion from here on doesn't need to profit the US or China anymore, it has to profit the colonies. This is a lot easier to do than the initial push to space as they are already up there. Going to Mars is easier for an orbital colony than reaching orbit is to an earthbound nation.
---
This might not be anything how it goes and the whole thing might not even ever happen. (which would be sad)
Don't take it too seriously, I just wanted to illustrate how I imagine it might go in a hopefully plausible scenario.
The amount of fuel needed to get into orbit is probably going to be the biggest problem. The price of the vehicle probably isn't going to cost very much in the long run if it's the reusable kind, it's the price of rocket fuel. It isn't exactly cheap considering the amounts you need to send any tonnage into space.
For sending people into space I think it's fine, but for the raw materials or tools I think to try sending the amounts needed would be economic suicide for the people trying to do it. You need some sort of alternative method for sending your heavy stuff into orbit, like a huge railgun. People probably wouldn't survive the nearly instantaneous acceleration of such a gun, and neither will delicate tools, but it would be able to send great amounts of stuff into orbit.
For sending people into space I think it's fine, but for the raw materials or tools I think to try sending the amounts needed would be economic suicide for the people trying to do it. You need some sort of alternative method for sending your heavy stuff into orbit, like a huge railgun. People probably wouldn't survive the nearly instantaneous acceleration of such a gun, and neither will delicate tools, but it would be able to send great amounts of stuff into orbit.
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