On the Strength of Cavalry

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Lord Aldric

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A lot of players have complained about how "overpowered" cavalry is in this mod; the problem is that it's fairly realistic for this era.  50 cavalry would generally trample 50 infantry with great ease.  The individual unit balance isn't the problem; it's the size of the cavalry "armies".  Cavalry is currently no more expensive to feed, maintain, and recruit than infantry.  Cavalry units are as large as infantry units.  I think it would be more balanced, and perhaps more realistic, if each cavalry unit counted as 2 units, if there is a way to do this.  That way, a cavalry unit would require more food, more grain, etc, and instead of having fights 120 cav vs 120 cav you'd see 120 infantry vs. 60 cav (which is a way fairer fight.)

This would be accurate to the era because cavalry units tended to have about half the numbers of infantry units.  For example, at Wagram, the infantry regiments tended to have about 1200 - 2500 men each, but cavalry regiments averaged around 300-800 men.  This is also true at divisional levels and corps levels; cavalry divisions and corps simply had about half the men that infantry divisions and corps had.

A player using a mixed corps would have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages; cavalry tends to hit harder but each dragoon or hussar will take two slots.  A player that has a cap of 100 men could have 100 infantry, 50 cavalry, or 50 infantry and 25 cavalry.  NPC lords would be similarly restricted.

Overall, this is the best mod I have played.  It's great fun as it is now; further polishing as it leaves Alpha state will only improve this gem.  I only wish the infantry and cavalry was more balanced so that cavalry armies didn't dominate so much, but without doing anything to impair the individual cavalryman who is very balanced at this time.
 
Once anti-cavalry squares are implemented, infantry units will have a much greater chance for survival.
 
I think it will be better once infantry have proper melee animations, on Napoleonic Wars Commander Battles (bots vs bots with player commanders) Infantry don't stand a chance on an open field in a line, however if they are bunched up in a square (if you're lucky) or better yet sitting on a hill the cavalry don't stand a chance, hopefully this mod will be like that at some point.
 
I don't think there is a way to stop cavalry destroying infantry in this mod. A square formation will only make matter worse, as the cavalry will just end up in the center of the square and all your troops will end up facing inwards, or getting killed from behind.

Horses don't know fear in this mod, and what helped make anti cavalry formations work throughout history was the simple fact of, it is hard to get a horse to charge at a solid wall of humans, with spears or muskets with bayonets.

1257AD is a mod I've not yet noticed overpowered cavalry, the person riding the horse may be overpowered, but if you charge horse into a spear wall your cavalry aren't going to have many horses left to ride on. Surely is can't be that hard to give the same buff to the bayonet, but not the musket. So if you attempt to stop a cavalry charge with just muskets or rifles you'll get destroyed, but you have a bayonet line, they are you anti cavalry line.
 
i think jacob's square code makes horses slow down, to simulate fear. Hopefully we'll see something like that soon in L'Aigle.
 
How about just simply reducing the HP on horses or increasing the damage muskets due to them?

A lot of my volleys seem to hit the rider for a kill or hit the horse and cause damage but no kill, maybe giving infantry better firepower would work.
 
If cavalry can flank infantry or attack them while marching they should be absolutely devastating. But a frontal cavalry charge against a deployed line of fire was suicide in history and should also be in this mod. Problem is that cavalry can run through the fire with hardly any casualties, partly because of the bad accuracy even at close range and the high HP of horses.
 
Docm30 said:
The reason cavalry is overpowered is because Taleworlds made it that way. Cavalry absolutely destroys infantry in the native game, even spear infantry.

Yes they do, hence why modifications out there balance cavalry more, I don't mean this in an offensive way at all but whats stopping you doing the same? Or are you happy leaving cavalry as they are?
 
What do you propose to balance them out? The only thing mods can really do is give infantry heavier armour or longer weapons, neither of which are options here.

And don't say reduce the amount of cavalry.
 
If I remember correctly muskets were around 180-190cm long (can't remember whether that's with bayonet or not) not that much shorter than spears infantry would use in a shield wall.
 
RegamusMaximus said:
If I remember correctly muskets were around 180-190cm long (can't remember whether that's with bayonet or not) not that much shorter than spears infantry would use in a shield wall.
That measure has to be with a bayonet. A Long Land Pattern Brown Bess is 159cm. And that is the longest version of the Brown Bess.
 
Articulo34 said:
RegamusMaximus said:
If I remember correctly muskets were around 180-190cm long (can't remember whether that's with bayonet or not) not that much shorter than spears infantry would use in a shield wall.
That measure has to be with a bayonet. A Long Land Pattern Brown Bess is 159cm. And that is the longest version of the Brown Bess.

Yeh I can't seem to find the wikipedia page I got that information from when I was doing a brief study of the 1812 conflict. I'm think I may of been mistaken or it is indeed the length with the bayonet. As I think the bayonets where just over a foot long. A foot being 30 cm so 159cm + 30cm is 189. So chances are the length I'm remembering is with bayonet fitted.
 
Docm30 said:
What do you propose to balance them out? The only thing mods can really do is give infantry heavier armour or longer weapons, neither of which are options here.

And don't say reduce the amount of cavalry.

How about very slightly reducing the health of all horses? Instead of 2 or 3 cavalry getting knocked down by a volley and the rest being unscathed you would see a good 10 to 15 getting gunned down at least possibly, would give infantry a better fighting chance.
 
That is the issue, yes. Volley fire would be very effective in most cases if the AI wasn't wired to always attempt headshots on humans. While fighting infantry, it is not so bad - but when faced against cavalry, the problem becomes glaringly obvious.
 
Besides using my square formation code (PM'd you, maybe the message timed out because it took me four hours to send), you could make cavalry behave more like horse archers than bowling balls. Horse archers are designed to ride in a counterclockwise circle around enemies and maintain a certain distance. I'm fairly sure you can apply this behaviour type on-the-fly to individual agents and then get a few of them to ride inwards and attempt an attack every now and then.

Might end up looking a bit silly and it wouldn't prevent the player from doing the same steamroller thing (unless the AI forms its own cavalry squares), but it's the only way I can think of nerfing cavalry's steamroller power with the current engine.
 
SolidXerm said:
That is the issue, yes. Volley fire would be very effective in most cases if the AI wasn't wired to always attempt headshots on humans. While fighting infantry, it is not so bad - but when faced against cavalry, the problem becomes glaringly obvious.

Interestingly, it inadvertently replicates the tendency of soldiers to fire high.
 
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