On Rebellions

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Because

Sergeant
I'd also say 2, but I'd want there to be a heavier relationship penalty with the town if you took it over from rebels. Essentially you crushed these guys chance at independence and they should hate you for it so unless you put in a lot of effort to turn them around you should be looking at another rebellion. Thus if you use it as a way of taking your 1st town and have the time and resource and a good governor to devote to it you can turn them around, but it should require work.
I'd also really like to be able to assign the player as governor, but with the key provision that they only apply the benefits when they are within a days ride of the settlement (and as this is already a known qty as it's used with the help with brigands case, shouldn't hopefully be too much of a nightmare to add).
 
@SadShogun What is the actual chance of a rebellions when a town is showing "High risk of rebellion". Is it a chance each day or less often?

I will sometime see towns plummet down to zero and build back up to safety. Even if I reload and watch many times they do not every have a rebellion during the 12 days or so they are in "high risk of rebellion". I really want to know id there always a chance for a rebellion when it shows "High risk" or are their conditions that must be met that are not shown. I know the militia must build up but it seems hard to judge what number compared the garrison is needed.
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
@SadShogun What is the actual chance of a rebellions when a town is showing "High risk of rebellion". Is it a chance each day or less often?

I will sometime see towns plummet down to zero and build back up to safety. Even if I reload and watch many times they do not every have a rebellion during the 12 days or so they are in "high risk of rebellion". I really want to know id there always a chance for a rebellion when it shows "High risk" or are their conditions that must be met that are not shown. I know the militia must build up but it seems hard to judge what number compared the garrison is needed.
It is currently 25% per day if the conditions are satisfied.
 

Lusitani 5th Empire

Sergeant at Arms
To any dev, is something like this in the works? Either way, please take a look
I support this idea. Cultural shift, depending on territory occupation, would work very well as a justification for rebellions to start.
  • Culture could be represented as a % of population belonging to the different settlements (villages, towns and castles), where, when conquered, each one could experience cultural shift independent from other settlements but also experience mutual influence on each other in the same region (group of settlements) /area of influence, so that a conquering faction who captures a single settlement on a certain region has more resistance to the cultural shift overall.
  • Cultural change could be more difficult depending on the cultural difference of the conqueror and the conquered faction.
  • It should be more difficult as the enemy progresses to the center or the heart of the faction/culture.
  • Different cultures or factions could have different culture shift resistance.
  • Different cultures should have different pros and cons, the attacking faction would experience cons right after conquering a settlement, as time progresses (if everything is under control) he starts to get some pros of the other culture (e.g.:access to other troops), while the cons and the chance of rebellion decreases.
  • Both the attacker and the defender should have ways to accelerate or resist the cultural change, the attacker should use force (troops) to prevent a rebellion, while the defender could gather more recruits in the region and incite independent/rebel armies (with a leader) that might form with the single purpose of capturing one settlement/region, lords could use their influence and resources to convince these armies to rebel and even join their army.
  • The outcome of the rebellion could determine or influence the cultural shift.
    • If the rebels win (conquers the settlement/region) then the cultural shift stops and progressively returns to normal numbers (depending on the time the enemy occupied the place).
    • If the conquerors win then the build up or the likelihood of another rebellion decreases.
  • There could be a small chance that the leader of the rebellion, tough of the same culture, after reconquering a settlement or a region declares himself independent from the initial faction (previous to the attack).
    • The "main" culture faction could then try to negotiate terms (alliances, persuade to join back, bribe, grant independence or declare war)
    • This new faction could even have small cultural differences (pros/cons) from the main faction culture that allows them to surpass the other main culture or become extinct.
 
I've read that defeated rebels are supposed to go away eventually. However in all my games they seem to persist forever, with one exception being when I killed a leader in combat, then the rebel clan was destroyed. Anyways as you can see these guys pile up over time.

They will attack clan parties but I can't tell if they do any other hostile acts like raid or attack villagers. If you make peace with them they want a large sum like a normal faction. At peace they will just hang out in your town forever and occasionally wander almost like pseudo vassals who may help kill bandits (not sure).

Anyways I'm not sure how it's supposed to work with them staying or going. I think it would really cool if the rebels could band together and make an army for a counter attack! Alone they're just walking money bags, but combined all 7+ factions could become.... a very large convenient money bag hah hah :smile:
 
Greetings Warriors of Calradia.

In this post, we explain our new feature and provide a follow-up to our previous post about Loyalty and Security.
Rebellions are instantaneous map events that occur after a build-up of resentment to the current owner of the settlement.
The purpose is to punish poor management and challenge over-expansive conquest and simulate the realities of governing settlements.

The rebellion based on the following assumptions.
  • Garrisons are always loyal to the settlement owner.
  • The militia on the other hand can defect as they represent the will of the people. The militia is the main force of the rebellion

Conditions
Currently, the rebellions only occur in towns and checks for the following conditions:
  • Loyalty of the town is very low.
  • Strength of the militia is a lot higher than the strength of the garrison.
As the loyalty of the town drops below a threshold, the populace gets angry and starts to take up arms. When this happens the number of militia in the town starts to increase rapidly and as they see the owner as their tyrant they will not join to defend against sieges. (Thus, a player cannot exploit this to create a very large number of militias)
If the conditions are met, a rebellion is started with some chance. This has quite a lot of effects which we explain below.

Effects
When conditions hold and a rebellion starts few things happen in the town.

  • The owner of the settlement loses all control of the settlement.
  • The garrison is destroyed. Some of them end up in prisons and others are killed.
  • A portion of the militia is lost in the uprising and the rest is converted to the garrison.
  • A new rebel clan is created. This clan has newly generated members representing charismatic or influential people who lead the rebellion.
  • The new clan is immediately at war with the original settlement owner's faction.
  • The loyalty of the city will get a temporary boost.

Rebel Clan
The rebel clan is the new clan formed by the prominent figures of the rebellion. While they take over the settlement's control, they have not established their legitimacy at this point.
A rebel clan is very similar to a normal kingdom clan with few key differences.
  • They cannot join factions.
  • They cannot marry other clans.
  • If they lose their original settlement, they cease to spawn and eventually destroyed.
  • If they manage to hold onto their settlement for some time, they will become a legitimate clan and can join, leave, marry, and perform other actions that a normal clan can do.

When rebel clans are created they start with a very low relationship with the faction they rebelled against and a very high relationship with their settlement culture and will probably defect to their original faction when they become normal clans after some time. Of course, it is not hardcoded and these clans (as any other) can be persuaded to join other factions. If the clan has rebelled against its own culture's faction then they will hate their own culture's faction(s)

Countering Rebellions
Rebellions is a future that would make large empires be wary of their over-expansive policies. Expanding very fast without keeping necessary garrisons until the land is healed can lead to rapid rebellions when conquering foreign lands. However, there are ways to counter rebellions. A town can be kept in check in many ways which we list a few below.
  • Appointing a culturally appropriate governor to reduce cultural penalties.
  • Resolving issues that have negative loyalty effects.
  • Improving permanent projects that increase loyalty gain.
  • Doing daily projects which would give loyalty boosts.
  • Defending villages and allowing them to heal would curb loyalty penalties from starvation.
  • Going after bandits and hideouts to increase security and loyalty.
  • Passing faction-wide policies that improve loyalty.
We believe rebellions introduce a new layer of depth to the simulation and make many other systems in the game matter more as policies, town projects gain new importance and also balance the steam-rolling factions quite a bit. As always we are awaiting your feedback, to further improve and balance rebellions.
Keep your subjects or happy or expect a rebellion soon!
I've seen rebel clans joining existing kingdoms and persisting long after their rebellion was crushed. They generally flock to neutral towns and just wait there. At one point, Khuzait was at war with 30 factions because they do not disappear over time. This consisted of multiple rebel factions out of one town.
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
I've seen rebel clans joining existing kingdoms and persisting long after their rebellion was crushed. They generally flock to neutral towns and just wait there. At one point, Khuzait was at war with 30 factions because they do not disappear over time. This consisted of multiple rebel factions out of one town.
We are aware of this issue it'll be patched in future updates. As always thank you for your feedback.
 
I've read that defeated rebels are supposed to go away eventually. However in all my games they seem to persist forever, with one exception being when I killed a leader in combat, then the rebel clan was destroyed. Anyways as you can see these guys pile up over time.

They will attack clan parties but I can't tell if they do any other hostile acts like raid or attack villagers. If you make peace with them they want a large sum like a normal faction. At peace they will just hang out in your town forever and occasionally wander almost like pseudo vassals who may help kill bandits (not sure).

Anyways I'm not sure how it's supposed to work with them staying or going. I think it would really cool if the rebels could band together and make an army for a counter attack! Alone they're just walking money bags, but combined all 7+ factions could become.... a very large convenient money bag hah hah :smile:

This is good. Game at least is not stale, with same old clans fighting with each other nonstop. Pls dont patch this.

Also, make Clans rebel as well as in this great mod:

City rebelions are too weak and get steamrolled in 2-3 days, make clans leave kingdoms if their relationshop is bad with the current leader.
 
I'd also really like to be able to assign the player as governor, but with the key provision that they only apply the benefits when they are within a days ride of the settlement (and as this is already a known qty as it's used with the help with brigands case, shouldn't hopefully be too much of a nightmare to add).
How can player be a governor if he is not staying at the city?
 

Monkey

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Maybe naming the faction after the name of the leader and the town. "Jora's Poros Rebels".
I like this suggestion. If we're going to have multiple rebel clans from the same town, this would work much better than multiple "Poros rebels".

Anyway, regardless of the chosen denomination, the R in Rebels should be capitalized as in @Lornloth00's suggestion, because that's the title of the clan.
 

scarface52

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I like this suggestion. If we're going to have multiple rebel clans from the same town, this would work much better than multiple "Poros rebels".
They change their name to a proper one after 30 days if I'm not mistaken so this shouldn't be a problem. Currently, failed rebel clans don't get removed correctly though so multiple "Poros rebels" shouldn't be an issue in the future.
 

Because

Sergeant
How can player be a governor if he is not staying at the city?
They wouldn't be and it would go back to the default state of no governor. Unless if you mean the days ride away part, TBH that's just a QOL issue as it makes the game less dull than just killing time in the town although in my head they you would still be close enough to be working on issues connected to that town.
 

Monkey

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
They change their name to a proper one after 30 days if I'm not mistaken so this shouldn't be a problem. Currently, failed rebel clans don't get removed correctly though so multiple "Poros rebels" shouldn't be an issue in the future.
I have a pair of "Husn Fulq's rebels" in my game that just won't go away and it's been way longer than 30 days.
Once that bug gets properly patched (hopefully in the next update) are they going to be removed or I'll have to start a new game if I want to get rid of them?
 
How can player be a governor if he is not staying at the city?
They just use the same codes as any other npc as governor but add a number or something so it counts when you're not there.
If you mean design wise, it's to make the game suck less and to make a massive portion of the perks and char progression not a complete irrelevant waste.
Along with captain perks, it's a complete waste to have so many things put in that the player can't use at all and realistically nobody but NPC spouses will ever use, and even they are stuck how they spawn.

I have a pair of "Husn Fulq's rebels" in my game that just won't go away and it's been way longer than 30 days.
Once that bug gets properly patched (hopefully in the next update) are they going to be removed or I'll have to start a new game if I want to get rid of them?
You can pay them for peace and they become free looter patrol. Actually, you can leave them hostile and they do that too, haven't seen them attack villagers yet but not 100% sure about it. Also, when they hang out in your town it's possible to benefit from the +security perk some lords have. It shows up as presence on the security list. Any lords can have this, but rebels tend to stay near their rebel town so if you get this it can be very consistent and ironically help to insure you don't have a rebelion :smile:
 

Monkey

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
They just use the same codes as any other npc as governor but add a number or something so it counts when you're not there.
If you mean design wise, it's to make the game suck less and to make a massive portion of the perks and char progression not a complete irrelevant waste.
Along with captain perks, it's a complete waste to have so many things put in that the player can't use at all and realistically nobody but NPC spouses will ever use, and even they are stuck how they spawn.
I do agree that either remote governing should be possible or something should be done about the skill system. Besides the ones that only benefit governors and formation captains, there's the impossibility of truly customizing companion's perks. Just like we can opt into automatic distribution of companion perks, there should be an option to "reset" character attribute and focus points when you first recruit them so we can distribute it as we like.
You can pay them for peace and they become free looter patrol. Actually, you can leave them hostile and they do that too, haven't seen them attack villagers yet but not 100% sure about it. Also, when they hang out in your town it's possible to benefit from the +security perk some lords have. It shows up as presence on the security list. Any lords can have this, but rebels tend to stay near their rebel town so if you get this it can be very consistent and ironically help to insure you don't have a rebelion :smile:
Yeah. My pair of Husn Fulq rebel clans are long at peace with me since shortly after they were created. It just bothers me the "encyclopedia spam" that it causes. Even "lost daughter" and "family feud" characters bother me to the point I avoid those quests completely. If an NPC is going to show up in the encyclopedia in the wanderer section, I'd rather it be a fully fledged, hirable companion, than just the name of an NPC making the list longer and complicating my searches.
 

Nodice83

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I started a fresh campaing and wanted to try something new.. But after brief screening of this thread i learned that "my brilliant idea" was described as common tactics (capturing freshly rebelled city town). I would still like to do it but i wonder... Will i be able to create a kingdom having such a fief without reaching demanded level (like i still see this is possible on the level 1, unlike but possible) ? Are diplomacy features available to me being a lord of this city town without actually meeting any "standards" and "pre-requisites" ? What is the factions attitude towards me ?
 
I started a fresh campaing and wanted to try something new.. But after brief screening of this thread i learned that "my brilliant idea" was described as common tactics (capturing freshly rebelled city town). I would still like to do it but i wonder... Will i be able to create a kingdom having such a fief without reaching demanded level (like i still see this is possible on the level 1, unlike but possible) ? Are diplomacy features available to me being a lord of this city town without actually meeting any "standards" and "pre-requisites" ? What is the factions attitude towards me ?
You need to reach clan rank 4 via renown to use the create kingdom button. You can manage the town (or 10)just fine, you just won't have any kingdom policies. The more towns (and filled garrisons) you have before you make kingdom button the better you'll look to vassals too, so milk it. Once you have vassals there's not going back, war forever
 

Nodice83

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
You need to reach clan rank 4 via renown to use the create kingdom button. You can manage the town (or 10)just fine, you just won't have any kingdom policies. The more towns (and filled garrisons) you have before you make kingdom button the better you'll look to vassals too, so milk it. Once you have vassals there's not going back, war forever
Don't get me wrong i somehow knew that answer. I experienced this "diplomatic limbo" before (until i reached level 4). My point here is that maybe this require some re-work. Is the level CAP really that much important ? Or at some point you may at least become a rebel. What particularily sound very unrealistic is the fact no other faction wants to subdue the "little lonely fief" you have there. It should be normally considered "easy picking". Just my thoughts though.
 

Pensaci

Sergeant

@SadShogun

Very cool feature! It was a great step in my opinion.
some of observation of mine:

Rebel Clan do not interact with player. Rebel Clan do not join player faction.
There is no pop-up or dialog options, is this intended? If so do you consider involve player into this process?

Rebel Clan is the boomers!
Later into the game, especially starting from 2nd generation, they are a great help to total population and diversity.

Rebel Clan is always 4 members.
Is it a fixed number? Or is there a reason they are always 3 led by 1?

Rebel Clan name changs into leader's name, after legitimized.
X's clan. And the name doesn't change again when succession.

Just trying to provide some feedbacks for this feature.
 

El Capitan

Sergeant at Arms

@SadShogun

Very cool feature! It was a great step in my opinion.
some of observation of mine:

Rebel Clan do not interact with player. Rebel Clan do not join player faction.
There is no pop-up or dialog options, is this intended? If so do you consider involve player into this process?

Rebel Clan is the boomers!
Later into the game, especially starting from 2nd generation, they are a great help to total population and diversity.

Rebel Clan is always 4 members.
Is it a fixed number? Or is there a reason they are always 3 led by 1?

Rebel Clan name changs into leader's name, after legitimized.
X's clan. And the name doesn't change again when succession.

Just trying to provide some feedbacks for this feature.
It sucks that you can't recruit rebel clans, It would be great if you could recruit them, it would add more depth and strategy to the gameplay. I wonder if TW plans on changing this in future patches.
 
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