On Rebellions

[Grumpy181155]

Greetings Warriors of Calradia.

In this post, we explain our new feature and provide a follow-up to our previous post about Loyalty and Security.
Rebellions are instantaneous map events that occur after a build-up of resentment to the current owner of the settlement.
The purpose is to punish poor management and challenge over-expansive conquest and simulate the realities of governing settlements.

The rebellion based on the following assumptions.

• Garrisons are always loyal to the settlement owner.
• The militia on the other hand can defect as they represent the will of the people. The militia is the main force of the rebellion

Conditions
Currently, the rebellions only occur in towns and checks for the following conditions:

• Loyalty of the town is very low.
• Strength of the militia is a lot higher than the strength of the garrison.

As the loyalty of the town drops below a threshold, the populace gets angry and starts to take up arms. When this happens the number of militia in the town starts to increase rapidly and as they see the owner as their tyrant they will not join to defend against sieges. (Thus, a player cannot exploit this to create a very large number of militias)
If the conditions are met, a rebellion is started with some chance. This has quite a lot of effects which we explain below.

Effects
When conditions hold and a rebellion starts few things happen in the town.

• The owner of the settlement loses all control of the settlement.
• The garrison is destroyed. Some of them end up in prisons and others are killed.
• A portion of the militia is lost in the uprising and the rest is converted to the garrison.
• A new rebel clan is created. This clan has newly generated members representing charismatic or influential people who lead the rebellion.
• The new clan is immediately at war with the original settlement owner's faction.
• The loyalty of the city will get a temporary boost.

Rebel Clan
The rebel clan is the new clan formed by the prominent figures of the rebellion. While they take over the settlement's control, they have not established their legitimacy at this point.
A rebel clan is very similar to a normal kingdom clan with few key differences.

• They cannot join factions.
• They cannot marry other clans.
• If they lose their original settlement, they cease to spawn and eventually destroyed.
• If they manage to hold onto their settlement for some time, they will become a legitimate clan and can join, leave, marry, and perform other actions that a normal clan can do.

When rebel clans are created they start with a very low relationship with the faction they rebelled against and a very high relationship with their settlement culture and will probably defect to their original faction when they become normal clans after some time. Of course, it is not hardcoded and these clans (as any other) can be persuaded to join other factions. If the clan has rebelled against its own culture's faction then they will hate their own culture's faction(s)

Countering Rebellions
Rebellions is a future that would make large empires be wary of their over-expansive policies. Expanding very fast without keeping necessary garrisons until the land is healed can lead to rapid rebellions when conquering foreign lands. However, there are ways to counter rebellions. A town can be kept in check in many ways which we list a few below.

• Appointing a culturally appropriate governor to reduce cultural penalties.
• Resolving issues that have negative loyalty effects.
• Improving permanent projects that increase loyalty gain.
• Doing daily projects which would give loyalty boosts.
• Defending villages and allowing them to heal would curb loyalty penalties from starvation.
• Going after bandits and hideouts to increase security and loyalty.
• Passing faction-wide policies that improve loyalty.

We believe rebellions introduce a new layer of depth to the simulation and make many other systems in the game matter more as policies, town projects gain new importance and also balance the steam-rolling factions quite a bit. As always we are awaiting your feedback, to further improve and balance rebellions.
Keep your subjects or happy or expect a rebellion soon!

I am loving the new features but I was wondering what factors affect Loyalty Drift and is it possible that over time the culture of a captured town / castle will change or the penalty for being a different culture diminish?

 

[ombror]

I was wondering what factors affect Loyalty Drift

in the other topic on rebellion, i found this :

I am not sure yet about how Loyalty Drift actually works but in my current game after I updated to the current build I noticed I was losing loyalty in my two towns, both of which had previously been 100. But after a while I did notice Loyalty Drift decreasing and now both towns have Loyalty Drift at 0 and both towns are gaining loyalty.

so it seems loyaty drift is a temporary debuff we got when just capturing a town of a different culture. So wait and it will disappear, but culture will always be the same, so you will always get the -3 debuff, but we have other bonus to apply to compensate it.

 

[Mikal Manfriedson]

I don't know...I got Tubilis castle awarded as I recaptured it from the WE. My character is Aserai, I am vassal of Aserai Sultanate and the castle origins are Aserai as well. Loyalty drift is between -3 and -5 per day...so pretty unclear, why that is so.

 

[Wixxa]

I am a man of the forest. I love being in the woods and if I could, I would build a small cabin in the woods, preferably somewhere near the flux. If it was possible, I would like to buy flux the most, because nothing soothes me as much as the sound of flux. If I could buy flux all surrounded by 5km as well as forests and I could sit there and have peace of mind. If someone saw an advertisement about Buy flux, I am willing, no matter what price !!

 

[Mikal Manfriedson]

But in that case the player always would have that penalty hard-coded - we do not start with fiefs.

 

[ombror]

played this morning, loyalty drift increase en decrease, i don't know what is this fu***ing drift, but it means nothing and i don't understand anything to that sh**. Sorry to speak like this, but when devs do crap, i think we must tell them. There's absolutely no intelligence in this "loyalty drift". Just delete this drift and useless rebellion.

 

[lottendill]

We noticed that some players are using rebelled settlements as an exploit. Capturing the rebelled settlement, allows player to have the settlement without war consequences to previous owner, do you think this exploit is something we should try and fix or it is good as it is?

 

[Mikal Manfriedson]

Nah...I see rebellions as a proper countermeasure to snowballing so an army cannot cut through a realm like a hot knife through butter. Rebellions enforce consolidation and people not happy with new owners forced upon them - I can live with that. I just would like to understand, how this works and if there are situations you get deadlocked because of it like recently conquered low tier castle with few upgrades of foreign culture..logic-wise it always will rebel. Working as intended?

 

[Grumpy181155]

Nah...I see rebellions as a proper countermeasure to snowballing so an army cannot cut through a realm like a hot knife through butter. Rebellions enforce consolidation and people not happy with new owners forced upon them - I can live with that. I just would like to understand, how this works and if there are situations you get deadlocked because of it like recently conquered low tier castle with few upgrades of foreign culture..logic-wise it always will rebel. Working as intended?

It does make it difficult to make a plan on how to keep a settlement when you don't know what are the factors being taken into account. Different culture, we can all understand, different culture of the Governor is straight forward but what drives Loyalty drift? For me that is a problem as I don't understand what is driving Loyalty drift. We don't actually know what factors affect it. Yesterday I watched Loyalty drift fall to zero in my two towns and now 1 town it is back up to 1.5 and the other to 0.9 for no obvious reasons. Is it just a variable number that changes over time or is there some way where I can influence it?

 

[babelfisch]

We noticed that some players are using rebelled settlements as an exploit. Capturing the rebelled settlement, allows player to have the settlement without war consequences to previous owner, do you think this exploit is something we should try and fix or it is good as it is?

You should definitely try to fix it. The previous owner should always have an interest in getting his settlement back.
It doesn't need to automatically lead into direct war though. It should take relations and priorities into account. For example:

If the former owner is already at war with 3 other factions he should consider to wait until the wars are over before trying to recapture the settlement. If the former owner is at very good terms with the new owner he should consider to accept the new situation. If the former owner has lots of money he should consider to make an offer to buy the settlement.

 

[Grumpy181155]

We noticed that some players are using rebelled settlements as an exploit. Capturing the rebelled settlement, allows player to have the settlement without war consequences to previous owner, do you think this exploit is something we should try and fix or it is good as it is?

My opinion is there should be some dialogue between the previous owner and the new owner. For example the previous owner could offer money or horses to have it back and if the new owner refuses then the options would be either a large hit to the relations between the two or possibly war.

 

[Mikal Manfriedson]

Oh, do not understand me wrong - I want transparency as well, but would not dismiss the feature outright, because I do not understand it.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

You should definitely try to fix it. The previous owner should always have an interest in getting his settlement back.
It doesn't need to automatically lead into direct war though. It should take relations and priorities into account. For example:

If the former owner is already at war with 3 other factions he should consider to wait until the wars are over before trying to recapture the settlement. If the former owner is at very good terms with the new owner he should consider to accept the new situation. If the former owner has lots of money he should consider to make an offer to buy the settlement.

.+1

 

[Tryvenyal]

It does make it difficult to make a plan on how to keep a settlement when you don't know what are the factors being taken into account. Different culture, we can all understand, different culture of the Governor is straight forward but what drives Loyalty drift?

Yes... "What is and what drives Loyalty Drift"?

@SadShogun This seems to be a question on many players mind. Can you please explain?

 

[cyberonn]

We noticed that some players are using rebelled settlements as an exploit. Capturing the rebelled settlement, allows player to have the settlement without war consequences to previous owner, do you think this exploit is something we should try and fix or it is good as it is?

I think the previous owner of the fief should declare war on the faction that have captured the rebelling settlement. Because they would think that they are the rightful owner of that settlement and they would deny any claims on that settlement. Be it the rebels or the ones that captured the settlement from rebels... Right now it is totally exploitable and it doesnt make much sense that the previous owner of the settlement lets us to capture it so easily.

 

[dannazgu]

If I may ask, @SadShogun, do you intend to implement something like this but with a system of civil war for AI lords or player? Just a thought

 

[SadShogun]

Yes... "What is and what drives Loyalty Drift"?

@SadShogun This seems to be a question on many players mind. Can you please explain?

Of course, loyalty drift and security drift are both passive effects on loyalty and security. I will refrain from giving numbers (since they're subject to change at all times) but the main way of working is the following.
For example for loyalty

LoyaltyDrift = (TargetLoyalty-Loyalty) x DriftCoefficient

Loyalty is increased by LoyaltyDrift every day

(if LoyaltyDrift is negative, then the loyalty will decrease)

Currently, TargetLoyalty is always 50 and DriftCoefficient is a constant as well. Basically what "drifts" do is that if you have some loyalty change, it balances around different numbers based on how large this loyalty changes.
A more concrete example would be, if you have 100 loyalty you will have the maximum negative loyalty drift and if you have 0 loyalty, you will have the maximum positive loyalty drift.

 

[Tryvenyal]

Of course, loyalty drift and security drift are both passive effects on loyalty and security. I will refrain from giving numbers (since they're subject to change at all times) but the main way of working is the following.
For example for loyalty

(if LoyaltyDrift is negative, then the loyalty will decrease)

Currently, TargetLoyalty is always 50 and DriftCoefficient is a constant as well. Basically what "drifts" do is that if you have some loyalty change, it balances around different numbers based on how large this loyalty changes.
A more concrete example would be, if you have 100 loyalty you will have the maximum negative loyalty drift and if you have 0 loyalty, you will have the maximum positive loyalty drift.

Thank you! Alot clearer!

 

[Grumpy181155]

Of course, loyalty drift and security drift are both passive effects on loyalty and security. I will refrain from giving numbers (since they're subject to change at all times) but the main way of working is the following.
For example for loyalty

(if LoyaltyDrift is negative, then the loyalty will decrease)

Currently, TargetLoyalty is always 50 and DriftCoefficient is a constant as well. Basically what "drifts" do is that if you have some loyalty change, it balances around different numbers based on how large this loyalty changes.
A more concrete example would be, if you have 100 loyalty you will have the maximum negative loyalty drift and if you have 0 loyalty, you will have the maximum positive loyalty drift.

That answered my question as well. I was concerned that my Loyalty before the update was 100 and then it started to fall and I was concerned about how far it was going to fall but if the Target Loyalty is 50 then anything over 50 is good. I assume then at 50 loyalty there are no positive or negative factors applied to the settlement output and taxes.

 

[Mikal Manfriedson]

So in fact it somewhat creates a Gaussian in regards of loyalty - most fiefs will have values ranging from 40-60 as the loyalty drift forces them into this range whilst low loyalty rather quickly recovers and perfect loyalty is eroded by it so with some struggle you can keep it at 90% but not perfectly, right?