On Rebellions

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I do agree with the sentiment regarding the current -3 settlement loyalty penalty is too severe.

Being a returning player from 1.1.2 playing in 1.6.1, the rebellions are a great addition to the game. I would argue though that the -3 settlement loyalty penalty from being from another culture is too much. Apart from empire factions conquering other empire towns, the AI can't hold 9/10 of towns they conquer outside of their culture. This makes certain towns to be constantly targeted by warring factions due to constant rebellion/conquer cycle.

Even I felt that having the -3 was too much, I was given an underdeveloped Rovalt in a campaign I was playing as a Battanian and the micromanagement I had to do to keep it from rebelling was crazy. My faction had an additional -1 penalty to help too.

The -3 is a challenge, but you can (easily) manage to mark it work if you have 1 or 2 kingdom policies active that gives loyalty. Recruiting a companion from the same culture and installing them as governor solves the problem pretty much immediately.
 

Rush09

Regular
The -3 is a challenge, but you can (easily) manage to mark it work if you have 1 or 2 kingdom policies active that gives loyalty. Recruiting a companion from the same culture and installing them as governor solves the problem pretty much immediately.

True but the AI does not like loyalty policies and the +1 from same culture governor does help but in that specific case, having a -1 loyalty from a policy killed that little boost.

But ultimately I do think the -3 is too much for the AI given that they don't seem to recognize loyalty at all in their towns. This leads to constant rebellions from AI conquered towns. I do like the rebellion feature but it shouldn't be this common. The only way most of the time a town doesn't rebel is when a AI leader happens to give a town to a clan of the same culture.
 

Doofus

Veteran
If you are the ruler, you can override decisions on policies, but not so much the ones already in place when you become ruler...particularly when they already voted for that policy that costs you twice as much influence to override their decisions.
 

SadGhulam

Recruit
Hi, I know this is way after the original post, and I created this account just to ask this question. As of 1.6.1, does prosperity of a town effect the likelihood of a rebellion starting? And/or what does prosperity effect in the world?
 

madnessario

Squire
Hi, I know this is way after the original post, and I created this account just to ask this question. As of 1.6.1, does prosperity of a town effect the likelihood of a rebellion starting? And/or what does prosperity effect in the world?

You can see how the different town values affect each other (check the table at the bottom), in this great post from Mexxico. Note that this is from May, after 1.5.10. So prosperity does not DIRECTLY influences a rebellion but it affects food, which can decrease loyalty and security.
ct2mV.png
 

SadGhulam

Recruit
You can see how the different town values affect each other (check the table at the bottom), in this great post from Mexxico. Note that this is from May, after 1.5.10. So prosperity does not DIRECTLY influences a rebellion but it affects food, which can decrease loyalty and security.
Ah, that's what I was hoping for. This means that the player can indirectly influence whether or not a town goes into rebellion by doing things to affect the town's prosperity; which is my devious plan of course. Many thanks to you.
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
True but the AI does not like loyalty policies and the +1 from same culture governor does help but in that specific case, having a -1 loyalty from a policy killed that little boost.

But ultimately I do think the -3 is too much for the AI given that they don't seem to recognize loyalty at all in their towns. This leads to constant rebellions from AI conquered towns. I do like the rebellion feature but it shouldn't be this common. The only way most of the time a town doesn't rebel is when a AI leader happens to give a town to a clan of the same culture.
Currently we have about 0.7 rebellions per year in the first 10 years and sometimes less. Of course this is 1.6.1 and 1.6.2. Does AI really keeps rebelling in your campaign?
 

Rush09

Regular
Currently we have about 0.7 rebellions per year in the first 10 years and sometimes less. Of course this is 1.6.1 and 1.6.2. Does AI really keeps rebelling in your campaign?

I'm currently in year 1149, 60 years after beginning of the game. I count 63 "(Insert name)'s Clan" clans in the Encyclopedia. If I'm not mistaken, rebellions start with "(insert town) rebels" only if certain conditions are met do they become "(insert name)'s clan" correct?

For example, Vladia conquered Battania fairly soon in this campaign, around the first 10 to 20 years yet Seonon and Car Banseth continue to rebel to this day, 40 to 50 years after being conquered. The difference between these two and Dunglanys, Marunath and Pen Cannoc is that these last three were given to Battanian Clans while the two former were given to an Aserai Clan and an Empire Clan respectively. In the early days, Marunath was given to an Vladia clan and kept rebelling until it happen to be given to a Battanian clan and stopped rebelling.

Now, I do think it makes some sense to have a town rebel in part due to "foreign" owners but the problem is, the faction leaders keep giving the same towns to the same foreign owners and so, they keep rebelling. The case of Marunath was an exception become the Vladians happen to conquer a new town just as the Vladian Clan lost control of Marunath, so the Vladian clan was given the new town and Marunath was given to another clan that happen to be Battanian.

Some towns owned by foreign owners do avoid rebelling so frequently, for example Saneopa in this campaign belongs to a Battanian Clan and I have yet seen it rebel. Now, it has 33 loyalty and it is decreasing slowly but the clan happen to put an imperial as governor which reduces that Owner's Culture debuff making it easier to manage for the AI.

This cycle of rebellions on the same towns makes their prosperity very small, which I assume is the reason the AI keeps a small garrison inside making them good targets to be assaulted in wars. For example, Seonon prosperity is 766 at the moment while Dunglanys is 11316.

EDIT: Just happened

 
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I tried something new in my game, I had rebel spawn against the AI before I could finish my ambition of destroying all the normal clans, so I let them be and executed the 8 remaining lords. I was surprised to see the map actual transferred (minus my storage castle) to the rebel faction.
I left the game running awhile to see what would happen when they finished thier 30 day free trial, but it seems they just stay a rebel clan BUT they get thier own rebellions.



The rebel clan is actually kind of annoying do to addition bug (maybe), I want to make a kingdom and execute the rulers to gain all the fiefs, but when I make a faction my lord prisoners are released, so my compromise is to execute most first, then hunt down 1 ruler after I make kingdom, HOWEVER every execution has chance to give the faction entire fief to the rebel clan 🤡 I'm having to save scum to make sure they don't get them because I want to see what they will do if I have the only faction when they go full clan. But then it kept giving it to the rebels so I killed them all anyways. They're not even real clan yet they shouldn't get fiefs like that if I can't.
Turned out I didn't need to worry about saving that 1 rebel clan as in the 5 or 6 days of hunting down final girl Chagun a whole collection of new rebels have spawned! Hope they have some females or my sister gonna be busy!


Turns out even when you're a faction, execution spoils can go to new rebel clans and because every rebel clan is a individual clan, it's hard fo you to get the land, so far I tried 3 times but a rebel clan gets everything

@SadShogun @Duh_TaleWorlds pinging you guys because although I think this is amusing, I doubt you want the freshly spawned rebel clans receiving mass fiefs over the player kingdom faction.

Edit to not double post: In 1.6.4 beta I've seen something new and pleasing, CHakaind has rebelled against the Khuzaits! I don't think I've ever seen a native khuzait land rebel against them before! If I leave them be could they have chance to defect to my player kingdom that is at war with khuzaits?
@SadShogun Can rebels defect to the player faction yet?
3Ed74.jpg
 
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