On lances

[okiN]

Here's something I ran into on the Chivalry: Total War forums.

From: http://www.classicalfencing.com/articles/shock.shtml

The rider starts his pass at the quintain from one end of the arena. He starts with the lance held at "ready" - that is vertical- because it is easier to maneuver the animal with the lance in this position. After the charge begins, and the rider is settled in to an easy canter, the lance is lowered to the "couched" position. For the purpose of training for the joust, the Quintain was approached on the rider's left, with the lance couched across the horse's neck. The rider couched the lance as far out in front as possible. The exact amount varied from rider to rider, but usually 12-18 inches (30-46cm) remained behind his armpit. The arm was "clamped" down over the lance to provide added grip and friction, and the lance hand supported the lance from underneath.

(click the direct link to see the picture without imageshack frame)
Medieval illustration:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4792/riddlans7zd.gif

Modern illustration:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5015/jpass17ib.jpg

It makes perfect sense. The spear-like grip that's used now is fine for spears and the lighter lances, but there's no way anyone could use the great lance or jousting lance like that. Would it be possible to have the character hold them in a different way, as shown?

 

[okiN]

I feel stupid about bumping my own thread, but despite 40 views, no-one's replying. Doesn't anyone else care?

 

[Ingolifs]

what exactly is it that you're trying to prove? I'm not sure if anyone really knows what the aim of this post was.

 

[Cambiel]

Yhat the current animation should be changed when lowering your lance to the couched position.

I guess.

 

[BobG]

To be totally honest, I hadn't payed that much attention to exactly how the lance was being held in the game. It looks to me like it's clamped under the arm properly in the game, and beyond that it's a question of whether it's being held with an overhand or underhand grip -- and honestly, at full gallop, I can't tell the difference.

 

[okiN]

That the current animation should be changed when lowering your lance to the couched position.

Exactly. Look back at my first post and compare it to this.



All lances in M&B are currently held overhand, under the elbow. In real life, this would probably be insupportable for heavier lances, like the great and jousting lances. These should be clamped firmly in the armpit and supported from underneath, as explained and shown in the original quote.

 

[katank]

That's true. This grip will totally break your wrist.

Still, other things should probably get higher priority though.

 

[okiN]

True, but I doubt it'd take much work.

 

[Wood]

approached on the rider's left, with the lance couched across the horse's neck.

I think that this is much more important. Jousting to the left was the norm, it allowed the shield to block the opponent's lance. Unless side to side aiming is added, the exact grip holding the lance is fairly unimportant.

 

[BobG]

After reading this post and playing the game again, I realized that okiN is right. It should just take a small graphical change -- just shift the hand's grip to the underside of the lance, and then shift the lance in the "couched" position in between the body and arm.

 

[Corsair]

I refuse to say anything positive about this guy, as he bumped his thread after waiting for twenty minutes.

 

[Praetorian]

I agree with the lance change, if it's not too hard/boring/whatever to do

 

[okiN]

I refuse to say anything positive about this guy, as he bumped his thread after waiting for twenty minutes.

Luckily, I don't like you either. So everyone's happy! ö/

During that 20 minutes, the thread had been viewed over 40 times, but no-one had replied because, apparently, they didn't understand what the thread was about. Because of this, the thread was just about to drop off of the first page, after which it would have been seen by NO-ONE, and since no-one else would probably have posted about this in a million years, the issue would never have been fixed. Hence the bump.

 

[The_Madhatter]

this subject raises a question:
since the knight is holding the lance with his/her right hand (hey, I'm lefty, all my PC are lefties, I wanna hold a spear in my left hand!!!) and a shield in the left, why can't he/she raise the shield WHILE couching the lance? I believe it's the way they did it btw...

 

[okiN]

It's probably a balance issue. I mean, if you could block with your shield and couch your lance at the same time, you'd be unstoppable. You'd be a goddamn TANK.

 

[The_Madhatter]

not if you could be unhorsed by a well-aimed couched lance or a footman pinning his pike on the ground...

 

[okiN]

...which will eventually be made possible, but undoubtedly wouldn't make that much of a difference. As a fact, a skilled player atop a spirited charger, armed capapée in reinforced black armor, simultaneously protecting himself with his reinforced steel shield and couching his great lance, would be an irresistible force on the battlefield. The enemy wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[BobG]

this subject raises a question:
since the knight is holding the lance with his/her right hand (hey, I'm lefty, all my PC are lefties, I wanna hold a spear in my left hand!!!) and a shield in the left, why can't he/she raise the shield WHILE couching the lance? I believe it's the way they did it btw...

I'm inclined to think that if you're concentrating on deflecting incoming attacks with your shield, you can't be concentrating at the same time on where your lance is pointed. It's one thing if it's a jousting tournament, and you only have the one guy coming at you to worry about, but it's another when you have enemies on all sides of you.

 

[Sir Saladin]

Way back then left-handedness was considered evil or devilish so you would have to pretend to be right handed or be hanged as a witch. And the argument "Well if I really am a witch why don't I curse you with boils or turn you all into toads?" Just didn't carry weight with those idiots.

 

[okiN]

Well, I'm not sure if they burned lefties at the stake, but at least they took rigorous measures to cure them of their ungodly disorder.