On Families and Dynasties

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Lord Engineer said:
Maybe it would be nice to explore that though I do feel the need to point out that there has been allusions to religion in the Bannerlord footage from Gamescom. So it may be homophobic. We'll have to wait and see.

About the viewpoint of homosexuality in the past, it differs from culture to culture and acceptance flourishes though as far as I know tolerance has never been has high or widespread as modern times. Greco-roman times had one of the highest that I can recall, probably why it has been brought up so much. From memory it stemmed from the idea that marriage was for procreation but outside of that you could find love with a partner, regardless of gender (or amount). I do remember something weird about position between gay men, where it was seen as bad or something for a man of higher social status to be... on the receiving end.

There were other instances of acceptance. There was also the fact that most people slept naked and would have slept together, though I think that was mostly non-sexual in nature and done for warmth. Some of it was probably sexual though. I remember hearing that the Lionheart may have shared a bed with King Philip, not sure of the validity of this though it sounds plausible. I also heard that they may of had a semi-romantic relationship, same for Edward II and Gaveston, though like most of history we don't know for sure.

As for killing children, well I have conflicting feelings on the matter. Honestly I take a rather brutal stance on the matter, on the one hand killing anyone is immoral and killing a child is extra taboo, on the other hand it would be really annoying not to be able to kill children when you can everyone else. It would also probably save a lot of hassle, just in general, and especially when you're trying to exterminate a clan.

As for the player dying with an underaged heir? Not sure, maybe a companion, maybe another (adult) family member, maybe spouse. To put it simply we don't know yet, and we won't know until another blog comes out or the game is released.

The Richard and Philip thing could be explained by a culture surrounding sleeping together as a sign of trust. Medieval Inns for example usually had shared beds and the bed was a common place to conduct negotiations in. It's impossible to say whether this or that king was bi or gay. Some of them probably were. Historians have also used these claims as a slander, for example there were claims that Nero had married a slave and that the emperor was the "bride" in the ceremony and the following marriage, heavily implying that thing about being on the receiving end, and from a slave. To me this episode seems like it was made up by opponents to shame him after his death.

Well, killing children has always been taboo, so at least there should be severe honor punishments for it. I would also like if there was a written "good option" for getting rid of inconvenient kids. Like sending them to some kind of monastery or to adoption out of Calradia or something.

 
Oxtocoatl said:
... but being the "feminine" partner was considered denigrating and emasculating.

Usually only if you were a person of high status. Many submissive were teenagers, slaves, or prostitutes (or a mixture) and were not  looked down upon as much as, say, a patrician who was found out to be on the receiving end. Antinous, submissive lover to the emperor Hadrian, was a slave and he turned into one of the most beloved people in the Roman Empire following his death.
 
Kentai said:
Could the child be an imbecile?

Odd question. Are you asking if a child could be born an imbecile, e.g, as a result of some sort of disorder such as Fragile X or Down syndrome?, then presumably no.

There hasn't been any mention of something like that to my knowledge and I don't think Bannerlord is going to go full CK II on us.

Though if they did include negative traits such as being born an imbecile, then I would want the opposite of that as well.

If you're asking if a child could just be stupid, well, I don't know. Again, odd question.
 

Kentai

Sergeant
Lord Engineer said:
Kentai said:
Could the child be an imbecile?

Odd question. Are you asking if a child could be born an imbecile, e.g, as a result of some sort of disorder such as Fragile X or Down syndrome?, then presumably no.

There hasn't been any mention of something like that to my knowledge and I don't think Bannerlord is going to go full CK II on us.

Though if they did include negative traits such as being born an imbecile, then I would want the opposite of that as well.

If you're asking if a child could just be stupid, well, I don't know. Again, odd question.

I was thinking in the CK II sense yes. I haven't played it myself but my friend is always telling me crazy stories about his exploits in CK II.
 

AlexHBK

Recruit
Kentai said:
Could the child be an imbecile?
The game even now sets the right direction in terms of the development of the gameplay. I think if it does not add it will fix the creators of modifications, which (most likely) will be able to expand the range of possibilities, while adding traits, bonuses and shortcomings of the characters.

Although I definitely like to have the games was the randomness of the events, not allowing the player to create the perfect heirs. That then had to deal with their retraining or even kicked out of the castle because of their uselessness (I'll make them wear black clothes and send them to the night's watch).
 

Bjorn The Hound

Grandmaster Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
I think the initial stats of a child should be a mix of parents stats in a lower value and there should some randomness as well.
 
Reread this and thought I may as well give my take.

AlexHBK said:
I really liked the innovations and so I would like to ask a few clarifying questions:

1) I wonder how the system of other children's claims to land and titles of their parents is implemented here? Can they fight each other for these titles?
2) Is there a possibility of blood feud with subsequent intrigues and rebellion?
3) Also interesting is it possible to kill children here? I respect the feelings of those who have children, but will the game really follow the brutal realities of the medieval?
1) I don't know for sure but I'm guessing it's probably going to be based on primogeniture or agnatic primogeniture. It's an interesting question on how Taleworlds plans to deal with inheritance. I'm guessing that it's all going to be clan-based and that the position of clan leader has some rigid succession line type deal. It would be interesting to see infighting over rights of inheritance. I'm guessing the most important fief/s are managed by the clan leader and the rest are divided amongst the other clan members. To be honest I'm not massively sure how clans have impacted fief ownership so what I'm speculating may not even be valid.
As for titles, well I can't remember anything about titles so I can't really say much on this.

2) I personally quite like the idea of blood feuds and clan grudges though again, I can't remember hearing anything about this. Still I love the thought of intrigue and rebellions. I would say that this is not in the realm of the impossible and I would say that its inclusion to be somewhat likely.

3) Depends on what direction Taleworlds chooses, and I laid out my thoughts on this subject matter on a earlier post in this thread. Even if they decide to exclude child mortality I'm sure it will get modded in. That's what happened to Skyrim and a lot of other games that had child in them but excluded their ability to be harmed let alone die. I agree with what Oxtocoatl said about the honour punishment, maybe a drop in reputation as well (though reputation may have been scrapped), if they do decide to include infanticide, a non-violent option would also be welcome.


Bjorn The Baker said:
I think the initial stats of a child should be a mix of parents stats in a lower value and there should some randomness as well.

Um... stats?, Bannerlord doesn't have stats, at least I don't think so. Skills yes, stats no. Maybe skills could be somewhat inherited, I don't think that's too unreasonable. Randomness would also makes things more interesting.
 

Roccoflipside

Master Knight
Seeing as they said you interact with your child to give them more/better skills and such, I could see a very busy parent, who's off conquering Calradia, returning to find their child all grown up but, since they never returned to train the child, there are no skills/good traits, and the child only has negative traits/etc. Do you kill them, send them out on their own and try for another child, or accept this as "hard mode" and try to play the character?
 

Kara Bey

Sergeant Knight at Arms
What do you think about the gender of child?

Callum said, there is a 51% chance that the child will be female.
 
Kara Bey said:
What do you think about the gender of child?

Callum said, there is a 51% chance that the child will be female.

Personally I've got no real problems with it, and I also talked about this a bit in the Dev Blog thread. In real life there are very few countries that have a higher rate of females born than males but a large amount of countries where women outnumber men.

As for the gender of my new character/successor, while I would prefer a male as I don't like to play as the opposite gender, it's not a big problem if I have to do that.


Roccoflipside said:
So... What your question? Seems like you answered it yourself
Their question is asking for your personal thoughts and opinion on the subject matter.
 
Kara Bey said:
What do you think about the gender of child?

Callum said, there is a 51% chance that the child will be female.

I don't want to play as a female, women are not warriors, never have been. Modded day 1.
 

JuanNieve

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I guess you can make several attempts until you get a son and then use your influence to pass a Salic law, so that women do not inherit XD

Also, it would cool if you can arrange marriages for your sons and daughters, it could be another element on the bartering screen.
 

John the Roleplayer

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
According to statistics, in modern, industrialized societies about 51 percent of children are boys. Are you sure it wasn't that way around?
In any case that ratio may have been different for medieval societies. And in game terms the difference between 50:50 and 51:49 would be so slight as to be unnoticeable.
 

ermine

Knight
It's about children, as tools in a game , daughters can be married away to get influence , maybe softening up a strong lord with bad attitudes towards you etc  - TW will tell us how those assets ( sons and daugthers ) are going to be played out.

Personally I like the concept very much. And I do hope the child will get "education" as companions get trained. Would it be possible to switch char earlier than the original PCs permadeath ( playing as a child ) ? Is it possible that the child dies ( getting ill, incidents , war ... whatever) ?

Once again I took a hit by all this nonsense what should be and how it should be due to historic whatever might have beens (Especially the gay marriage as base  for aristocratic dynasties )


 
John C said:
According to statistics, in modern, industrialized societies about 51 percent of children are boys. Are you sure it wasn't that way around?
In any case that ratio may have been different for medieval societies. And in game terms the difference between 50:50 and 51:49 would be so slight as to be unnoticeable.

Callum said "... there is a 51% chance that the child will be female.", so yeah.

I also think that the difference won't be massively noticeable and that it's fine as is.


Earlier I alluded to myself talking about this subject already in the dev blog and as I don't really want to repeat myself too much (and the fact I can just copy and paste it) I'm going to post what I said here as I think that it's at least somewhat relevant.

Lord Engineer said:
Akka said:
Callum_TaleWorlds said:
dr4gunov said:
Please, include information regarding gender of a child. Is it always gender of player's character or will it be random (or maybe player will choose)?

We will explain it all in much more detail later, but to answer this question directly, there is a 51% chance that the child will be female.
Shouldn't it be rather 51 or 52 % to get a male ? That's the actual sex ratio in the world.

Probably not in the time period Bannerlord is based off of, it could have been different as many factors that exist today weren't as relevant back then and vice versa.
Besides modern sex ratios have been skewed a bit (though probably not too badly) by sex selective abortions in a lot of countries in Asia and Africa, especially in countries like China and India.
Biology is weird, male embryos are more likely to fail whereas female fetuses are more likely to fail and environmental factors also play a part along with the age of the parents and a whole bunch of other factors. The other day I read something about latitude potentially playing a role.
Technically it's a 50:50 ratio for male to female fertilisation though the effective ratio is about 106:100 for actual births, the reason for this is a matter of discussion.
They probably have some reason to make that the ratio and he said they'll talk about it in more detail later so maybe then he'll explain why they choose the ratio they did. As for the real life ratio, I think it has something to do with balancing out the higher mortality rate for young men and the actual human sex ratio, not the birth ratio, is around 102:100 for male to female.

Edit: Also in a lot of the more developed Western countries (and a lot of other countries) there is an observed ratio of more females than males though some countries like Australia and Sweden have been reported to be about even.
Lord Engineer said:
Akka said:
Lord Engineer said:
Probably not in the time period Bannerlord is based off of, it could have been different as many factors that exist today weren't as relevant back then and vice versa.
Yeah but usually, environmental stressor tend to on the contrary increases even more the birth of males.

And you're right about the sex ratio in general population, but he was talking about birth ratio here :p
...

I did mention the birth ratio, I stated it was about 106:100 for male to female which is roughly 51.456%. The actual sex ratio for humans is considered to be around 102:100 for male to female or roughly 50.495%.

And I have heard what you say about external stress (though during wartime) before and that apparently, along with higher temperature, it can increase the amount of males born. I have also heard about natural disaster leading to females being favoured. There are also other factors at play as well on the paternal half that can affect sperm characteristics which can affect the sex of the fertilised ovum. As I said earlier biology is weird, and this is not a simple subject matter.

I would be very interested in learning why Taleworlds has selected the ratio they did.
Maybe it's a part of the fantasy element of the world, a slight difference to further seperate Calradia and real life.


stevehoos said:
Kara Bey said:
What do you think about the gender of child?

Callum said, there is a 51% chance that the child will be female.

I don't want to play as a female, women are not warriors, never have been. Modded day 1.
Looks tasty
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