Old familiar modes

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DEH

Recruit
Is it worth waiting in the future the old modes of battles, sieges, deathmatch, duels with the purchase of equipment as it was in warband.
Yes, I know that Bannerlord wanted to emphasize the cybersports game, but I think there are fans of the old modes
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
We have to get away from this theory that the game wanted to be an esport, please for the love of all that is holy this game was never meant to be an esport. If it was, I wouldnt be sitting here for 3 years waiting for the ability to spectate matches.
 

Sundeki

Master Knight
M&BWB
We've been complaining about the same design decisions for over 3 years now. TaleWorlds refuses to change anything, and won't listen to feedback unless it's on some small bug, and those changes take months and months before we get them. The vast majority of players agree that the new premade class system is horrible, and have believed that since the beginning, and TaleWorlds have never managed to make it either enjoyable nor balanced in the last 3 years.

Luckily in the 1.8.0 beta update (which multiplayer won't have for another ~6 months, probably), there seems to be the ability to finally select mods for multiplayer, and custom servers are in closed testing meaning we'll probably see them around the same time 1.8 patch goes live. Trust me when I say there are massive sections of this community that are waiting for the talented modders in this community to come in and fix many of the baffling design decisions. Unless you're a clown like me, it's probably best to leave and check back in every few months until we get to that point. Battle, balanced combat, and an enjoyable class system will come in time once modding support is there, without a doubt.

Yes, I know that Bannerlord wanted to emphasize the cybersports game
With a couple of exceptions; the entire Mount & Blade competitive community has rejected basically all of the changes since the beginning. It wasn't made for us, nor with us in mind. Whoever told you that is woefully misinformed.
 
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ParzivaI

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
TBH the moment they release private servers that the players can mod it the way they want, ill just get my own private server and revert 90% off the updates made to equipment, troops and perks, I still believe I had more fun during the beta and first 3 months of Early Acess (minus a few faction balances) than the next 2 years of development.
Really makes me sad they thought it was a good Idea to make this a generic esports game and scrap the identity of the game.
2 years later and we can't have 200 players Battles and sieges....
 

Younes

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Truth be told, no one knows what taleworlds is trying to make with the multiplayer.
 

DEH

Recruit
What makes people think esports was the idea behind this game?
I once heard that they wanted to make cyber sports back when there was a beta multiplayer, lol :smile:

I myself do not play multiplayer Bannerlorda so I can not assess how balanced it is, but apparently the above person already knows

Apparently the release of the game is still a long time away
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
I once heard that they wanted to make cyber sports back when there was a beta multiplayer, lol :smile:
Ah, no that was incredibly unlikely to be the case, if so we'd have seen signs of it by now.
No spectator, no prize pools, no oversight from the developers, no esport.
Most likely they dont know what they want, they just add things and whatever sticks, sticks.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I once heard that they wanted to make cyber sports back when there was a beta multiplayer, lol :smile:
Saying TaleWorlds wanted to make MP an esport is like saying you want to become the strongest man in the world but you never leave your bed.

Like yeah maybe you wanted it and maybe, by some weird mutation, you do become it, but it certainly was NOT because you put ANY effort towards it.
 

Hans 77

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Removing the most beloved game mode and what was pretty much the backbone of Warband mp, and replacing it with this weird, awkward, incongruent, and woefully unbalanced pretender in the form of Skirmish mode, has got to be the most mind-numbingly absurd design decision of Bannerlord's entire development process.

No one was asking for it. Everyone was pleading for Taleworlds to keep Battle. Taleworlds instead just bulldozed everything in their path so that their "special little creature" would have a niche it could exist in. All community inputs were straight up ignored and/or dismissed.

Battle and Skirmish could have (in theory) existed concurrently, but Taleworlds simply attempted to bury Battle Mode and forced the community to play Skirmish for 3+ years if you include pre-EA closed testing periods.

A prevailing theory surrounding Taleworlds' actions is that they were trying to create an E-sport out of Skirmish, since it had the skeleton of a contemporary E-sport design -6v6 mode with multiple spawns, unique role-oriented pre-made classes, and multiple objectives, but there is no clear evidence this was their intent. So this brings us to the ultimate question: Why?

At this point, I'm more interested in learning why Battle was scrapped for Skirmish than anything else regarding Bannerlord -and I don't think I'm alone on this. Whether the game ever improves or even becomes decent is moot at this point; I feel indifferent about Bannerlord. All that is left now is one last bit of closure in the form of 'Why Skirmish?'

Would love an answer.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Removing the most beloved game mode and what was pretty much the backbone of Warband mp, and replacing it with this weird, awkward, incongruent, and woefully unbalanced pretender in the form of Skirmish mode, has got to be the most mind-numbingly absurd design decision of Bannerlord's entire development process.

No one was asking for it. Everyone was pleading for Taleworlds to keep Battle. Taleworlds instead just bulldozed everything in their path so that their "special little creature" would have a niche it could exist in. All community inputs were straight up ignored and/or dismissed.

Battle and Skirmish could have (in theory) existed concurrently, but Taleworlds simply attempted to bury Battle Mode and forced the community to play Skirmish for 3+ years if you include pre-EA closed testing periods.

A prevailing theory surrounding Taleworlds' actions is that they were trying to create an E-sport out of Skirmish, since it had the skeleton of a contemporary E-sport design -6v6 mode with multiple spawns, unique role-oriented pre-made classes, and multiple objectives, but there is no clear evidence this was their intent. So this brings us to the ultimate question: Why?

At this point, I'm more interested in learning why Battle was scrapped for Skirmish than anything else regarding Bannerlord -and I don't think I'm alone on this. Whether the game ever improves or even becomes decent is moot at this point; I feel indifferent about Bannerlord. All that is left now is one last bit of closure in the form of 'Why Skirmish?'

Would love an answer.
It has been a long time since... ??

In that same thread, this Rhade's comment was premonitory
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
I still think that it's more reasonable to believe that the gold system was meant to prevent 8K gold hoarders to be immortal men that can survive getting dogpiled multiple times.

In practice, some matchups between factions just end up getting pretty one-sided, though I think this is mainly due to Sturgia and Aserai having lackluster options against armored opponents. Also, something something Imperial Recruit.
 

Hans 77

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
I still think that it's more reasonable to believe that the gold system was meant to prevent 8K gold hoarders to be immortal men that can survive getting dogpiled multiple times.

This never happened. Tin cans were still very mortal; the expensive armor simply afforded them the luxury of tanking a few extra hits at the cost of some mobility (which is a huge weakness in and of itself) -the tradeoff was pretty balanced.

The only scenario that would even come close to what you described is if a tin can fought an archer with a scimitar or weak 1h sword in melee, in which case they could probably take 6-8 flush hits before they died. But if it even got to the point where an inf player was banking 8k gold and armored in elite gear then it almost certainly meant that one team was already steamrolling the other team, essentially making the armor factor moot before it even comes into play.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
This never happened. Tin cans were still very mortal; the expensive armor simply afforded them the luxury of tanking a few extra hits at the cost of some mobility (which is a huge weakness in and of itself) -the tradeoff was pretty balanced.
As someone who has played on the NeoGK server in the past (and at a few times, even hit that gold threshold), having the best armor/2h sword/shield/javelins will definitely make you much harder to dispatch when fighting against people who are only using what their minimum gold can afford (IIRC, the default is a measly 1K. NeoGK has bumped it up to 1800 to allow for comebacks)

I think tweaking certain elements in the classes Bannerlord currently has could improve the balance.
 

Sundeki

Master Knight
M&BWB
As someone who has played on the NeoGK server in the past (and at a few times, even hit that gold threshold), having the best armor/2h sword/shield/javelins will definitely make you much harder to dispatch when fighting against people who are only using what their minimum gold can afford (IIRC, the default is a measly 1K. NeoGK has bumped it up to 1800 to allow for comebacks)
Still dead in 1 couch, still dead to a heavy crossbow/arbelest headshot, basically useless against a horsebump without a spear(as cavalry core, I found killing heavy enemies easier than killing light enemies, even without couch). Can be kited until shield breaks(getting your shield couched out is easier too) at which point it becomes a sitting duck. Is literally incapable of catching anyone except de-horsed cavalry and other heavy infantry, and it's loss of maneuverability left it heavily lacking against more agility- and footwork-based infantry playstyles, in addition to being easier to kick. Not to mention that people prioritized good weapons over armor with 1000g loadout, meaning that regular infantry you were playing against still had the best weapons their faction had to offer to hit you with, as the norm. I won't say heavy armor didn't have it's uses, but in order to function against archers/cavalry/ranged infantry it required even more support from teammates than usual. Heavy Infantry in Warband was an upgrade in some ways from light/medium infantry, but functioned more as a niche-filling side-grade, and it worked better on some map styles than others. Tincans were also kinda conspicuous, and as a result easy to avoid + drew large attention from cavalry/archers before the tincan could close within range.

I'm sure I could keep coming up with more weaknesses of Heavy Infantry, but I think I paint a reasonably clear picture.

I think tweaking certain elements in the classes Bannerlord currently has could improve the balance.
The Bannerlord premade class system will never be balanced. Never. I knew that they would have a hard time balancing it when I saw it played 3 years ago, but after playing it and watching it for 3 years now, I can now say with total certainty that the imbalance heavily built into the class/faction system makes it utterly impossible. Warband's class/faction system, despite feeling left half-finished and half-balanced in some ways, was in a much greater state of balance at it's worst than Bannerlord's will be at it's best.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
The Bannerlord premade class system will never be balanced.
I don't think the problem is that it can't be balanced. I'm pretty sure it can.

The main issue I have is that TaleWorlds doesn't WANT it to be balanced, which is a huge difference.
 

Sundeki

Master Knight
M&BWB
I don't think the problem is that it can't be balanced. I'm pretty sure it can.

The main issue I have is that TaleWorlds doesn't WANT it to be balanced, which is a huge difference.
I stand by my statement that it literally cannot be balanced. Yes, TaleWorlds designed it to be unbalanced, but they couldn't make it balanced with all the talent and time in the world. It's an inherent problem to the design decisions that cannot be resolved without taking the entire premise apart and replacing it.
 
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