[OLD] Coders' Lab (Updated Feb/23/09)
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Lord Corentin
Sergeant at Arms
Axes with short or long hafts? There were a couple of different names for axes, although as far as I know they weren't quite as prevelant in Chinese armies due to their requiring a large swing space and that being inconvenient in large formations, which the Chinese, with their grand armies, tended to fight in. A two-handed axe would be called "Shaung Mian Fu", which seems somewhat unwieldy as part of a troop name. Would a more threatening name suffice, like Blackaxe or Heavy Axeman? If the haft of the axes involved is long enough, it could also be named any number of poleaxes.
Oh yes, another question. What weapon do the troops with "Ji" in their name use? Seem to recognize the name, but I can't place it at the moment.
Oh yes, another question. What weapon do the troops with "Ji" in their name use? Seem to recognize the name, but I can't place it at the moment.
Lord Corentin
Sergeant at Arms
For the axemen, "Hei Fu Bing" means black axemen, "Da Fu Bing" would be axemen using literally "Big Axes", "Shuang Mian Fu Bing" would be double-sided axemen.
Wei.Xiadi
Knight at Arms
You're a genius my friend. "Shuang Mian Fu Bing" it shall be!
Expect it in the next release tomorrow.
Could you also provide me with a new other names, I plan to change the Tanguts a little, have them more varied and different to the Jin. Any troop trees or name for any Mongolian units would also be highly appreciated.
Thanks a lot.
Expect it in the next release tomorrow.
Could you also provide me with a new other names, I plan to change the Tanguts a little, have them more varied and different to the Jin. Any troop trees or name for any Mongolian units would also be highly appreciated.
Thanks a lot.
Lord Corentin
Sergeant at Arms
Could you provide me with some sort of document with the equipment of the two troop lines? That'd be nice to have, so I could try producing different names for the them.
No response, so I'll just provide general names you could choose from.
"Shuang Shou Ju Fu Bing", literally "Two-handed Huge Axe Soldier". The "Ju" can be removed to just be "Two-handed Axeman""
"Zhan Fu Bing" Battleaxe Soldier
"Mao Bing" Spearman
"Ban Fu Bing" or "Yue Bing". Both would use larger than usual one-sided axes.
"Zhong Zhuang Qi Bing" Literally "Heavily Armed Calvary, you can insert the names of various weapons between Zhuang and Qi to denote different weapons. Alternatively, Zhuang can be taken out to just be "Zhong Qi Bing", where the weapons would be placed between Qi and Zhong. Same concept, just different sounds and lengths of names.
"Chang" can be added to the beginning of "Dao Bing," "Jian Bing," "Mao Bing," and "Qiang Bing" to denote longer weapons. Similarily, "Jing Rui" means elite and can be substituted for the word in some of your troop names if you would so wish.
Don't think you're planning this, but "Shuang" can be added in front of many weapons to mean that you're dual wielding them, like "Shuang Fu Bing" or "Shuang Jian Bing". Likewise, using "Shuang Shou" in front means the weapon is dual-weilded.
"Ji" is a trident type weapon in most contemporary use, although it can be a catchall for a number of polearms, dunno if you intended to use it like so, but just pointing it out just in case.
All that I can think of for now. Hope it's helpful.
Edit: Oh, as many as I can? This will be fun...
Horse archers would be "Qi She Gong Bing", with heavier versions being "Zhong Qi She Bing".
Any sort of generic archers you'd want to include, if you would like to put in some sort of foot archer for a faction, would be "Gong Bing," perhaps "Chang Gong Bing," literally longbowman, for a more elite version of the troops, as "Chang Gong" was the type of bow used in the Tang dynasty for foot soldiers.
"Duan" can be added before weapon names to mean short, if you need to do that to distinguish between troops.
That's it for now, I think. Will probably add more later, so stay tuned if you need more ideas.
li
No response, so I'll just provide general names you could choose from.
"Shuang Shou Ju Fu Bing", literally "Two-handed Huge Axe Soldier". The "Ju" can be removed to just be "Two-handed Axeman""
"Zhan Fu Bing" Battleaxe Soldier
"Mao Bing" Spearman
"Ban Fu Bing" or "Yue Bing". Both would use larger than usual one-sided axes.
"Zhong Zhuang Qi Bing" Literally "Heavily Armed Calvary, you can insert the names of various weapons between Zhuang and Qi to denote different weapons. Alternatively, Zhuang can be taken out to just be "Zhong Qi Bing", where the weapons would be placed between Qi and Zhong. Same concept, just different sounds and lengths of names.
"Chang" can be added to the beginning of "Dao Bing," "Jian Bing," "Mao Bing," and "Qiang Bing" to denote longer weapons. Similarily, "Jing Rui" means elite and can be substituted for the word in some of your troop names if you would so wish.
Don't think you're planning this, but "Shuang" can be added in front of many weapons to mean that you're dual wielding them, like "Shuang Fu Bing" or "Shuang Jian Bing". Likewise, using "Shuang Shou" in front means the weapon is dual-weilded.
"Ji" is a trident type weapon in most contemporary use, although it can be a catchall for a number of polearms, dunno if you intended to use it like so, but just pointing it out just in case.
All that I can think of for now. Hope it's helpful.
Edit: Oh, as many as I can? This will be fun...
Horse archers would be "Qi She Gong Bing", with heavier versions being "Zhong Qi She Bing".
Any sort of generic archers you'd want to include, if you would like to put in some sort of foot archer for a faction, would be "Gong Bing," perhaps "Chang Gong Bing," literally longbowman, for a more elite version of the troops, as "Chang Gong" was the type of bow used in the Tang dynasty for foot soldiers.
"Duan" can be added before weapon names to mean short, if you need to do that to distinguish between troops.
That's it for now, I think. Will probably add more later, so stay tuned if you need more ideas.
li
Lord Corentin
Sergeant at Arms
Previous post edited, will probably move on and stop editing the same post so that people know when I add stuff, heh.
Lord Corentin
Sergeant at Arms
Glad to be of service! I don't know a bit of mongolian though, unfortunately. I'll try to get you some info on their solidiers tomorrow, if that's fine with you?
I don't know a bit of mongolian though, unfortunately. I'll try to get you some info on their solidiers tomorrow, if that's fine with you?
Lord Corentin
Sergeant at Arms
Almost feel like I should be insulted at being called a bunny... Oh well, I don't really mind.
Anyways, Mongol troops... Two rather important troops you should include would be the Keshiks and Mangudai. Their purpose varies according to the source, but I do know that the Keshiks formed Genghis Khan's elite guard at some point, while other sources claim that they were light calvary designed for skirmishing. Use them as you will, or wait until the next mod is coming out if you so wish. I do think that the light cavalry role should be filled with the Mangudai though, the elite light calvary of sorts, also used during Genghis Khan's rule onwards. I'm not very familiar with the names for the mongol tribal warriors before the rise of Temuchin to power, so I do apologize for that. The term "Mangudai", or "god belonging" suggests some sort of kamikaze behavior, or at least scouting/skirmishing, so you can incorporate that how you wish. It also probably means that they, at least, have been around since before Temuchin. Aside from troop names, I'm not sure how this would be implemented, but the Mongolian tribes usually had from 2 to 4 horses per warrior, depending on his rank, while the various Chinese armies were hard-pressed to even keep a partially mounted calvary force. Could this be expressed in some way in-game, perhaps in Mongolian calvary units being cheaper to hire? I presume this would require them to be lower level or something like that, and I'm not sure how that would affect their strength. Just a thought, though. Each man was also encouraged to be independently strong on his own, meaning that most troops carried a full complement of weapons ranging from their trademark re-curved bows to scimitars and lances. There were usually specific troop divisions later on during the reign of Genghis Khan and his successors, but I don't think they were nearly so clear cut before the tribes were united. Give each Mongolian troop a larger variety of weapons, perhaps?
After the Mongolian invasion of the Liao empire though, the Mongolian empire would come to rely on Chinese infantry and siege weapons, which would be useful if you would like to diversify the troop trees. Even before then, though, the Mongolian empire did utilize foot archers would heavier versions of the re-curved bows used by the horse archers, and individual soldiers would generally carry battle-axes into battle, often just as a sidearm for close combat. For armor, the most common types were fur armor and heavier lacquered leather armor, with scaled boots and chainmail known to be used by more elite forces, with the former being far more common.
Also, I found a new unit you can use for the Tanguts. It would appear that they had a type of heavy cataphract type troops known as "Tie Yao Zi", literally "Iron Harriers," named after the fierce predatory bird. They were the elite of the Xi Xia (Tangut) empire. Another thing you could have the Jin or the Tangut incorporate, provided the coding is possible, would be fire lances, a sort of primitive gunpowder weapon used by the Chinese empires of the time. There would basically be small cylinders filled with gunpowder attached to Chinese spears, which would fire darts or arrows, often poisoned, before the spear was used to charge into the fray. It was more of a psychological weapon than an effective killing tool, but it was fairly important at the time. Again, all of the info kind of bounces between the time of Genghis and before, so you may want someone to verify the history before implementing it. Cheers!
Anyways, Mongol troops... Two rather important troops you should include would be the Keshiks and Mangudai. Their purpose varies according to the source, but I do know that the Keshiks formed Genghis Khan's elite guard at some point, while other sources claim that they were light calvary designed for skirmishing. Use them as you will, or wait until the next mod is coming out if you so wish. I do think that the light cavalry role should be filled with the Mangudai though, the elite light calvary of sorts, also used during Genghis Khan's rule onwards. I'm not very familiar with the names for the mongol tribal warriors before the rise of Temuchin to power, so I do apologize for that. The term "Mangudai", or "god belonging" suggests some sort of kamikaze behavior, or at least scouting/skirmishing, so you can incorporate that how you wish. It also probably means that they, at least, have been around since before Temuchin. Aside from troop names, I'm not sure how this would be implemented, but the Mongolian tribes usually had from 2 to 4 horses per warrior, depending on his rank, while the various Chinese armies were hard-pressed to even keep a partially mounted calvary force. Could this be expressed in some way in-game, perhaps in Mongolian calvary units being cheaper to hire? I presume this would require them to be lower level or something like that, and I'm not sure how that would affect their strength. Just a thought, though. Each man was also encouraged to be independently strong on his own, meaning that most troops carried a full complement of weapons ranging from their trademark re-curved bows to scimitars and lances. There were usually specific troop divisions later on during the reign of Genghis Khan and his successors, but I don't think they were nearly so clear cut before the tribes were united. Give each Mongolian troop a larger variety of weapons, perhaps?
After the Mongolian invasion of the Liao empire though, the Mongolian empire would come to rely on Chinese infantry and siege weapons, which would be useful if you would like to diversify the troop trees. Even before then, though, the Mongolian empire did utilize foot archers would heavier versions of the re-curved bows used by the horse archers, and individual soldiers would generally carry battle-axes into battle, often just as a sidearm for close combat. For armor, the most common types were fur armor and heavier lacquered leather armor, with scaled boots and chainmail known to be used by more elite forces, with the former being far more common.
Also, I found a new unit you can use for the Tanguts. It would appear that they had a type of heavy cataphract type troops known as "Tie Yao Zi", literally "Iron Harriers," named after the fierce predatory bird. They were the elite of the Xi Xia (Tangut) empire. Another thing you could have the Jin or the Tangut incorporate, provided the coding is possible, would be fire lances, a sort of primitive gunpowder weapon used by the Chinese empires of the time. There would basically be small cylinders filled with gunpowder attached to Chinese spears, which would fire darts or arrows, often poisoned, before the spear was used to charge into the fray. It was more of a psychological weapon than an effective killing tool, but it was fairly important at the time. Again, all of the info kind of bounces between the time of Genghis and before, so you may want someone to verify the history before implementing it. Cheers!
Wei.Xiadi
Knight at Arms
Hey, don't take what he says personally - its his nature, he was actually just being friendly.
As for the names, they're brilliant, but you only really named me 2. For the mongol troop tree I need more mongol names, even if they're not fully accurate I still need names. (sobs)
anyone know Mongolian..or..a translating program of Mongolian to give me all the words for swords, spears, scimitars, lancers.. ect ect ect
As for the names, they're brilliant, but you only really named me 2. For the mongol troop tree I need more mongol names, even if they're not fully accurate I still need names. (sobs)
anyone know Mongolian..or..a translating program of Mongolian to give me all the words for swords, spears, scimitars, lancers.. ect ect ect
Lord Corentin
Sergeant at Arms
I'll settle with big whale, at least that means I can crush things. Well, Wei Xiadi, I've gotten my hands on an english-mongolian dictionary, so sword in mongolian is ildun, to be armed with swords is ildutei, numuci is master of bows and arrows, surcin is just archer, jida means spear. All I could find so far.
Wei.Xiadi
Knight at Arms
AWESOME..
Okay, so here are the random words I'll want.
Peasant
Militia
sword
saber
lance (lancer)
Heavy
cavalry
bow and arrow
elite
soldier
veteran
axe
spear
short sword
scimitar
and anything else I can totally manipulate into troop names.
The 'bad-ass' names will be those you listed above. They will be like, the ultimate elites of the Mongol army. As for the 'amount' of horses they have, maybe we can make a mercanary group of cavalry that are cheap to purchase.
Okay, so here are the random words I'll want.
Peasant
Militia
sword
saber
lance (lancer)
Heavy
cavalry
bow and arrow
elite
soldier
veteran
axe
spear
short sword
scimitar
and anything else I can totally manipulate into troop names.
The 'bad-ass' names will be those you listed above. They will be like, the ultimate elites of the Mongol army. As for the 'amount' of horses they have, maybe we can make a mercanary group of cavalry that are cheap to purchase.
Lord Corentin
Sergeant at Arms
This took forever... But here goes, without the accents.
Peasant is "tariacin", "jaduu tariacin", "bertegcin", or "tariad," while peasant woman is "tariacin emegtej"
Militia is "sergijlex" or "cagdaa"
Sword I already gave above, although saber can overlap with it, giving words like "selem" and "ild".
Swordsman is "tujalzuur zadcin," apparently
Lance is "zad" or "gilber," and Lancer is "morin cereg"
Heavy on its own is "dinsger" or "baraan," while heavily armed is "xund zer zevsegtej" or "xund zevsgeer zevseglesen," so I think "xund" might work as heavy as well.
Don't think there's a word that translates into calvary, though "morin cereg," "mor’ton," "mor’toj xun," and "aduu sonirxogcid" apparently all mean horseman.
Bow and arrow is "num sum"
Elite can be "ongo," "sor," "sildeg xeseg," or "deedcuul," though I'm not sure which, if any, of those is the adjective form.
Soldier is "bajldagc", "cereg", or "zanzin", and as a bonus soldiers of fortune are "xolsnij cereg," which could be used for some sort of mercenary group.
Veteran is "xuucin" or "urt nastaj" (The adjective form at least)
Axe is "sux" or "aluurcny sux", battle axe is "bajldaany sux", double axe is "xoer taldaa irtej sux", and hand axe is "culuun sux"
Spear is also "zad," while spear-carrier is "zadcin"
Shortsword I couldn't find... but scimitar is "taxir selem" or "maxir selem"
As for the chinese troops, I forgot to mention that "Jing Rui" means elite. Hope all of the above is helpful... Took forever to translate into mongolian and then translate the cyrillic into latin, which may make for some very strange names. Dunno how that works. Might turn out that none of the above works out. If not... Dunno. I tried my best. Let me know what you think.
Peasant is "tariacin", "jaduu tariacin", "bertegcin", or "tariad," while peasant woman is "tariacin emegtej"
Militia is "sergijlex" or "cagdaa"
Sword I already gave above, although saber can overlap with it, giving words like "selem" and "ild".
Swordsman is "tujalzuur zadcin," apparently
Lance is "zad" or "gilber," and Lancer is "morin cereg"
Heavy on its own is "dinsger" or "baraan," while heavily armed is "xund zer zevsegtej" or "xund zevsgeer zevseglesen," so I think "xund" might work as heavy as well.
Don't think there's a word that translates into calvary, though "morin cereg," "mor’ton," "mor’toj xun," and "aduu sonirxogcid" apparently all mean horseman.
Bow and arrow is "num sum"
Elite can be "ongo," "sor," "sildeg xeseg," or "deedcuul," though I'm not sure which, if any, of those is the adjective form.
Soldier is "bajldagc", "cereg", or "zanzin", and as a bonus soldiers of fortune are "xolsnij cereg," which could be used for some sort of mercenary group.
Veteran is "xuucin" or "urt nastaj" (The adjective form at least)
Axe is "sux" or "aluurcny sux", battle axe is "bajldaany sux", double axe is "xoer taldaa irtej sux", and hand axe is "culuun sux"
Spear is also "zad," while spear-carrier is "zadcin"
Shortsword I couldn't find... but scimitar is "taxir selem" or "maxir selem"
As for the chinese troops, I forgot to mention that "Jing Rui" means elite. Hope all of the above is helpful... Took forever to translate into mongolian and then translate the cyrillic into latin, which may make for some very strange names. Dunno how that works. Might turn out that none of the above works out. If not... Dunno. I tried my best. Let me know what you think.
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