Offspring: it's a matter of time

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Duh

Duke
M&BWB
jamoecw said:
i think you are missing mine. all of this seems very out there due to how things probably work now, but who cares? in the end it comes down to technical limitations (that we simply don't know the extent of),
Again. It doesn't stop at the technical side of things. I never argued the tech side. I argued the design side - which we have a fair bit of information on.

jamoecw said:
so why not let them speculate?
There is no ban on speculation.

Edith:
RoboSenshi said:
That's exactly what I was suggesting. I didn't mean speed up time and leave it at that. I want time progression to be faster and also every subsequent feature to be modified. Using my limited game design knowledge, I assumed only quests would be affected. Which I guess was wrong.
Fair enough. I suppose my primary concern in this regard (beyond the likelihood of TW investing that much into this feature) is whether or not the final product would still resemble the originals, but overall it is certainly possible to redo much/all of the world. Indeed, I would like if that was possible for modders from the tech side of things.

RoboSenshi said:
Also regarding party speed, it would stay the same. Parties won't be whizzing by the screen. Only the day night cycle would be shortened. So you may be chasing a bandit party and in the old system it would take you some hours but in a new system it would take days. Party speed remains the same.
Ackshuallllly - I know im being a Korinthenkacker but just for the sake of clarity of work required... you would probably have to change the speed because the movement setup is probably time * speed. Or adjust the size of the map relative to the speed, tho that d prolly be unnecessarily complicated. And just to further drive the point of complexity... let's say travelling does take longer as you described. That means we would also have to rework the supply, income and/or wage system. Which may then require a redesign of the broader game economy and so on. All too often development is a game of whack-a-mole. You fix one thing, but that makes another come up. Depending on the scope of the redesign/reworking... it may even be easier to just create an entirely new system from scratch.

RoboSenshi said:
As for the budget reports they could come monthly rather than weekly. In fact most reports would come less frequently cause events would take longer to happen. Honesty, my aim is to have the game operate as normal but stretched out so a campaign would take longer. I just want a longer game :lol:
I believe it was Jacob who noted the lack of persistent endgame (in other words) due to the ability to conquer all of calradia. I.e. heirs alone would likely not support a very long game. Though a crusader king style setup (with a somewhat random chance of bad heirs, assassinations, realms breaking apart, etc) are probably the closest one can get to that goal.
 

jamoecw

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Duh said:
jamoecw said:
i think you are missing mine. all of this seems very out there due to how things probably work now, but who cares? in the end it comes down to technical limitations (that we simply don't know the extent of),
Again. It doesn't stop at the technical side of things. I never argued the tech side. I argued the design side - which we have a fair bit of information on.
actually you are arguing on the side of technical design. which without much idea on the technical side of things is highly speculative.

there was a post on the paradox forums several years ago in which someone asked for the ability to map a certain key in the options menu. he said that it in response to someone talking about an issue, and stated that he hadn't mentioned it was probably too difficult to implement. being the paradox forums in which the devs engage in regularly, a dev chimed in that he had no idea that there was even a desire for such, and that now that he knew he coded it into the next patch. the person said he was sorry for causing so much work, and wondered if it was even worth it for a problem that impacted so few people. the dev said that it he only needed to write a single line of code and that it was less than 5 minutes of work, worth it for even one player. the skeptical poster was a forum regular, and had some level of authority on the forums as such, though far less than a moderator. had that been a different forum the idea for such would probably been squashed for quite some time until someone with coding experience and knowledge of the game's code itself found the issue and chimed in loud enough for a dev to hear.

i don't really care one way or another on the subject of pregnancy and such.
 

RoboSenshi

Grandmaster Knight
WBNWVC
Duh said:
RoboSenshi said:
Also regarding party speed, it would stay the same. Parties won't be whizzing by the screen. Only the day night cycle would be shortened. So you may be chasing a bandit party and in the old system it would take you some hours but in a new system it would take days. Party speed remains the same.
Ackshuallllly - I know im being a Korinthenkacker but just for the sake of clarity of work required... you would probably have to change the speed because the movement setup is probably time * speed. Or adjust the size of the map relative to the speed, tho that d prolly be unnecessarily complicated. And just to further drive the point of complexity... let's say travelling does take longer as you described. That means we would also have to rework the supply, income and/or wage system. Which may then require a redesign of the broader game economy and so on. All too often development is a game of whack-a-mole. You fix one thing, but that makes another come up. Depending on the scope of the redesign/reworking... it may even be easier to just create an entirely new system from scratch.
Damn. You make some good points. That means if the game wasn't designed to have the time passage tweaked it would be a giant heap of work or near impossible to mod? That's a downer. But its good hearing from someone with knowledge on modding. I'm just going to manage my expectations and see what the devs have in mind about child development and time passage.

Duh said:
RoboSenshi said:
As for the budget reports they could come monthly rather than weekly. In fact most reports would come less frequently cause events would take longer to happen. Honesty, my aim is to have the game operate as normal but stretched out so a campaign would take longer. I just want a longer game :lol:
I believe it was Jacob who noted the lack of persistent endgame (in other words) due to the ability to conquer all of calradia. I.e. heirs alone would likely not support a very long game. Though a crusader king style setup (with a somewhat random chance of bad heirs, assassinations, realms breaking apart, etc) are probably the closest one can get to that goal.
I certainly hope they do that. It would be incredibly boring if you could still just steamroll the entire map once your kingdom becomes invincible. We're still waiting to the extent of kingdom politics.
 

Duh

Duke
M&BWB
RoboSenshi said:
That means if the game wasn't designed to have the time passage tweaked it would be a giant heap of work or near impossible to mod?
Yeah. And development of a commercial product is, of course, also faced with a different set of challenges than modding in that it is supposed to deliver a largely enjoyable, balanced, polished, etc experience at release, which makes fundamental changes to the core game at a late stage of development quite unattractive. Imo that is especially true for a game like M&B that revolves so strongly around systemic design, long gameplay loops and emergent gameplay (i.e. that no playthrough is the same and the world lives and evolves with and without player input) because... it is really quite difficult to tell what will happen if you change things around. (When we introduced bandit heroes into floris, which is a fairly minor change in comparison, it came with an unforeseen chance of massive bandit or manhunters hoards in the late game - because individual bandit parties would follow and fight alongside the hero party, which led to larger encounters and then either increased their survivability, freed prisoners, etc or boosted the manhunters to a level they could have never reached otherwise. Barely noticable in early to mid game. Massive change to late game.)

Having said that, I do believe that modders could achieve a redesign/recreation of the world - if given the technical ability. Remaking the original game with a different gameplay speed in mind would certainly be a daunting task and maybe impossible in terms of retaining the original experience, but if we are given freedom to change speed, UI and world logic... folks could just create a different game. One that better suits the flow of time and/or has a more viable scope. At that point it's just a question of skill and desire. (I.e. If you are really completely departing from the M&B formula... why not just use unity/unreal/etc?)

RoboSenshi said:
I certainly hope they do that. It would be incredibly boring if you could still just steamroll the entire map once your kingdom becomes invincible. We're still waiting to the extent of kingdom politics.
Maybe :razz: I do think the world will be more complex overall. With the clans and kingdom politics. But the current passage of time (from what we have seen/heard... maybe it was changed) somewhat speaks against CK 2 level dynamics. Because the majority of players won't play that long.
 

Roccoflipside

Master Knight
The big thing that popped in my head when discussing modifying time was the new economy system. Assuming everything is built around time like Duh says, the entire economy is probably run by taking x amount of time to produce product y, z amt of time for the villagers to bring it to the city, and q amt of time for the city, then village to receive their payments (the villager has to travel back to the village w/ the proceeds). Especially since we've been told they've attempted to rework the world so that raiding a village has an actual impact on an enemy lord's personal economy, reworking time w/out touching each part of the economy could possibly render the entire economy system irrelevant/botched up.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Roccoflipside said:
The big thing that popped in my head when discussing modifying time was the new economy system. Assuming everything is built around time like Duh says, the entire economy is probably run by taking x amount of time to produce product y, z amt of time for the villagers to bring it to the city, and q amt of time for the city, then village to receive their payments (the villager has to travel back to the village w/ the proceeds). Especially since we've been told they've attempted to rework the world so that raiding a village has an actual impact on an enemy lord's personal economy, reworking time w/out touching each part of the economy could possibly render the entire economy system irrelevant/botched up.

giphy.gif

Oh boi...
 

Duh

Duke
M&BWB
I mean the question is always how far you have to deviate from the base line. There is some wiggle room for minor changes and maybe the adjustment required for offsprings to be a greater factor isn't all that much. But then again, the premise of this topic seems to be that the current setup is way too slow for them too grow up naturally. :razz:
 
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