Official 3D art thread - Warband

[RMOD-Dylan]

Austro, what exactly are you studying at college? And when you must do 3D art as assignments, do you find it becomes more of a chore to you than the fun activity it used to be?

I ask because I'd love to take a university degree in something involving 3D art.



What I'm working on at the moment: A Roman legionary. 20,000 polies. The body mesh was using Makehuman, a brilliant tool.

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That looks like his materials and lighting course assignment. It only gets to be a chore if you work a lot and go to school. I worked 18 hr days counting in college and road time. 7 days a week. You want to go this route? If yes, look at my post above. Some course work there.

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Critique:

Youre very much in the work in progress phase and you need to remember to chamfer your edges. Get some thickness in the planar areas. So far the helmet and mid torso catch my eye as appealing.

 

[CurtisWS]

I ask because I'd love to take a university degree in something involving 3D art.

you'd be better off learning on your own, it would take you less time to get to a pro level. unless university is free, even then it still may be waste of time. only thing university is good for is visas, other than that it's useless for the most part.

 

[shadowarcher]

Austro, what exactly are you studying at college? And when you must do 3D art as assignments, do you find it becomes more of a chore to you than the fun activity it used to be?

I ask because I'd love to take a university degree in something involving 3D art.

As CurtisWS mentioned, you're pretty much better off teaching yourself. I took a 2 year Level 3 games design course 3 years ago and the only thing it taught me was how to use Blender, and that was a college course. All a University course will do is basically teach you what you already know (leaving you to expand your own knowledge), give you an apprenticeship opportunity and a ton of cash (though it depends on parent wages) , both of which you can do without the University for next to nothing.

Honestly if you've got nothing to do for a good 2-3 years and want some money to basically do exactly what you're doing now(which you will have to eventually pay back), then by all means go ahead.

 

[Jarvisimo]

It's not the learning I'm bothered about - I learn on my own (currently learning C# and continuing with Blender).

It's just I'm interested in going into the games design field. It's what I seem to gravitate towards strongly and I can imagine myself living happily in such a career so I'm all for it. I will definitely be going to university, however I would love to hear if anyone here with experience/knowledge has any ideas on what exactly I should study at university to open the most doorways into game design careers.

I kinda lean equally toward 3D art and programming. I am fairly competent at programming, I pick up new languages fairly easily etc, however 3D art would be amazing to do for a living. (I've heard tales about code monkey syndrome, so programming for a job might become a huge chore - 3D art on the other hand seems at least a little less monotonous).

 

[BlancMiles]

It's not the learning I'm bothered about - I learn on my own (currently learning C# and continuing with Blender).

It's just I'm interested in going into the games design field. It's what I seem to gravitate towards strongly and I can imagine myself living happily in such a career so I'm all for it. I will definitely be going to university, however I would love to hear if anyone here with experience/knowledge has any ideas on what exactly I should study at university to open the most doorways into game design careers.

I kinda lean equally toward 3D art and programming. I am fairly competent at programming, I pick up new languages fairly easily etc, however 3D art would be amazing to do for a living. (I've heard tales about code monkey syndrome, so programming for a job might become a huge chore - 3D art on the other hand seems at least a little less monotonous).

Yeah I would love to hear that too ... It´s exactly the same with me.

 

[RMOD-Dylan]

It's not the learning I'm bothered about - I learn on my own (currently learning C# and continuing with Blender).

It's just I'm interested in going into the games design field. It's what I seem to gravitate towards strongly and I can imagine myself living happily in such a career so I'm all for it. I will definitely be going to university, however I would love to hear if anyone here with experience/knowledge has any ideas on what exactly I should study at university to open the most doorways into game design careers.

I kinda lean equally toward 3D art and programming. I am fairly competent at programming, I pick up new languages fairly easily etc, however 3D art would be amazing to do for a living. (I've heard tales about code monkey syndrome, so programming for a job might become a huge chore - 3D art on the other hand seems at least a little less monotonous).

Yeah I would love to hear that too ... It´s exactly the same with me.

If you like both art and programming, I took Visual and Game Programming. I switched to Game Art and Design to focus on 3d. Art Institute of (insert here). I went to Orange County and Las Vegas. Be careful walking in saying you want to do game design, game designers work with game design documents and only design how the game works. You need to look at a credits list and see what role you like. Enviornment/Character/Weapon/Vehicle design for 3d. I focus on weapon design and got a job as a weapons artist. Specialize but be good at everything if you can

 

[Jarvisimo]

Sound advice Dylan. It's a long shot, but are there equal opportunities in the US and UK for 3D art degrees/jobs? I've got very little tying me down here (UK) so I would be willing to emigrate if it lets me pursue this career.
However if the opportunities are equal then of course, somewhere in England would be fabulous. I'll take a look now.

 

[cwr]

It's just I'm interested in going into the games design field.

Isn't game design basically deciding the features, etc., of the game? Why would you need a college course for that? In extreme need, just ask one of the many 'idea modders' out there, they'll have tons of ideas for you.

 

[SacredStoneHead]

Ideas don't make a good game.

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

Sound advice Dylan. It's a long shot, but are there equal opportunities in the US and UK for 3D art degrees/jobs? I've got very little tying me down here (UK) so I would be willing to emigrate if it lets me pursue this career.
However if the opportunities are equal then of course, somewhere in England would be fabulous. I'll take a look now.

There are a fair few game jobs in the UK, but not nearly as many as in the US, or even in Canada I believe. For a foreigner without a degree to get a job in Canada or the US is almost impossible. Even with one it's hard. What you really need are awards that prove your excellence in your field.

 

[RMOD-Dylan]

Sound advice Dylan. It's a long shot, but are there equal opportunities in the US and UK for 3D art degrees/jobs? I've got very little tying me down here (UK) so I would be willing to emigrate if it lets me pursue this career.
However if the opportunities are equal then of course, somewhere in England would be fabulous. I'll take a look now.

Yep. If you move to Orange County, California... You have game studios ALL around the area. Like major ones, obsidian and stuff. I seen students get hired before graduation. I did too, and dropped out, I knew enough. I was in the field as a weapons artist until I had a stroke of bad luck ruin my finances (vegas and I didnt gamble my money.)

Good school, check out the Art Institute of Orange County.

It's just I'm interested in going into the games design field.

Isn't game design basically deciding the features, etc., of the game? Why would you need a college course for that? In extreme need, just ask one of the many 'idea modders' out there, they'll have tons of ideas for you.

For example... I will link my thread.

A game designer works on a design document detailing every single aspect of the game. His purpose is ideas that are everything of the game. So know what you want to do. If its 3D. Start now. You learn from the internet at first like I did, I was only in middle school making 3d models like AK-47's. It isnt that hard, it just takes a lot of critical thinking and puzzle solving to make a good model. Imagine the pride when I finished some of my complex models. It gets complex, and it is a hugely rewarding feeling to have created something from nothing.

But to the comment I will say that you at least need to know the format of how to do it. You can't just write stuff down on a piece of paper and consider yourself a professional. Its the same thing to a lot of modelers. You cant expect to get anywhere unless you're someone somewhere. You have to be good and get your work out there to get jobs. Its super competitive in artistry since we are a dime a dozen and are the first to get laid off.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=299370.new#new

I wish I had the resources to teach you guys some stuff. Thats why I am making some things to read from scratch.

 

[Slawtering]

Don't want to interrupt this 3d thread, but here is an example of one of our games design documents we had to make (individually) from about 3-4 months ago for our mini simulation built for our college. Yep I included Taleworlds in there. Information in there is probably wrong but it got me a  merit so meh.

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Similar Projects:
Similar projects to what we are doing are rare. Most educational games are not walkthroughs or tutorial like in nature. Other games like “WolfQuest” let experience what it would be like to be a wolf, tell ing you how to survive and where to go, just like our game where you are a potential student, being told where to go and how to do things, to prepare you for college life. Minnesota Zoo (Developer) was given a grant of US $508,253; although they offered the game for free, they offered packs you could buy packs which had more content in it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_educational_video_games)
The Costs Involved:
The cost of this product will vary depending on if we can use previously bought licenses or if we have to buy them ourselves. I few have to buy everything from the start we will have to pay for Unity (if Pro $1500 or $75/per month), Maya 2014 £3,795.00, Microsoft Office Suite £325.96 (2013 Professional) and Adobe Photoshop CS6 £349.95 (Or the whole suite CS6 for £1,029.89). This comes in at £ 5383.26 for the versions with just Photoshop or £ 6063.20 including the whole suite. This is just for one person. It will increase for more than one person as we have to pay for their licenses. Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit costs £40~, 30copies of this would cost £1200. You can buy a set for a business (Volume License) much cheaper. (I can’t get an exact price for that as it is based upon a customer to customer basis.
Now we have to factor in the cost of the PC’s, monitors, keyboards and mice. Although mice and keyboards on their own will be a minimal cost, you can further reduce the cost by paying for a bulk amount. Depending on how many are in the team (let’s say 30), you could buy a bulk of 30 mice and keyboards. Buying the monitors can also be bought in bulk. A minimal of 1080p would be optimal as it gives the sort of quality when building the games of what the quality will end up at as well as having enough pixels for Photoshop work. A 27 inch LCD 1080p monitor costs £100~, but this could be bought for cheaper, and in bulk even cheaper. The computers themselves are a tricky one. Companies like DELL are known to sell their Pre-Built PC’s with terrible PSU’s so it might cause hassle in the future, also high priced PC’s can be built for much cheaper. Bulk buying the parts then building the PC’s would be the cheapest way to build your own high quality low price workstation PC.
Wages we would have to pay would be minimal. The national living wage estimate is £7.65 per hour at roughly 8 hours a day (£ 61.20 per person per day) x 30 people would be a cost of £1836 per day of full staff for the full 8 hours. We would then take voice acting talent from the staff or from free websites and/or open source websites. The easiest way to manage tax is to PAYE (Pay as you earn). The payment of tax will go at the end of the fiscal year April~. Income tax will be deducted on £5240 at 20% .The total income without tax being £14,668.
Sources:
• http://www.livingwage.org.uk/blog/new-uk-living-wage-%C2%A3765-new-london-rate-%C2%A3880
• https://store.unity3d.com/
• http://store.autodesk.co.uk/DRHM/store
• http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CDHAM9W/sr=1-2/qid=1390311622/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1390311622&seller=&sr=1-2
• http://www.ecrater.co.uk/p/19193919/microsoft-windows-81-pro-operating-system-32-64?gps=1
• http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/free-office-software
• http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Office-Professional-2013-Licence/dp/B00A2IM080/
• http://www.pricewisetrust.com/product.asp?itemid=205&gclid=CMPgpcq2j7wCFdQPtAodnloAZg
• http://www.uktechstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=1223
• http://www.livingwage.org.uk/sites/default/files/Living%20Wage%20-%20A%20Guide%20for%20Employers%20-%20Nov%202013.pdf
• http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2949
• http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm#2a




Legal and Ethical constraints:
“Being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, especially the standards of a profession”
“Pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.”

An ethical practice is not only a practice that follows the laws and rules of the country or organisation in charge. It is also the doing and/or maintaining of moral practices. An immoral practice for example could be to have workers on zero hour contracts, while illegal it is considered unethical and immoral. In the media industry, you will almost definitely be working under a Codes of Conduct. A Code of Conduct is used to set a standard to be followed by media workers to dictate their behaviour. A good example of this is for journalists and how they conduct themselves while reporting on news stories. Here is the Code of Conduct for the National Union of Journalists:

Legal and ethical constraints we may have are many. First off we have to follow the agreements of the software bought. This can be things like not being allowed to sell products if the software used was not the business version. We would also need permissions for everything used, this may include the crediting of certain software’s and/or middleware used in game. The main concerns would be the protection of the Intellectual Property of our product; this could be done through trademarks and copyright. Another issue would be the software bought. We would have to make sure we have the correct business/industrial versions of the software as the home/student/educational versions rarely allow you to make money on these versions as they are either restricted or cheaper.
There are a number of Acts a Games development company have to abide by. These include:
• Race Relations Act 1976: “This act makes it unlawful to discriminate against anyone directly or indirectly on racial grounds.”
As a games company this act is act is enforced to make sure that in-game there is no racism in-game, unless it is within the context of the game (usually historical context). The game is to be unbiased as to not offend anyone.

• Human Rights Act 1998: “Everyone’s right to life shall be protected by law. No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provide by law.”
As a games company this act is enforced to make sure the game does not portray things that break the human rights act in a positive light. For example slavery, murder and are to be portrayed as bad and something that shouldn’t be done.

• Privacy Law: “This law is all about the protection and preservation of the rights of privacy of an individual.”
As a games company this act is to protect people from using their image in game without their permission. It is also able to protect the company and/or employees in case they hold sensitive information.

• Copyright Law: “Copyright law is all about protecting the rights of a person who created something, such as a book, an article, a piece of music, a website or in this case a video game.”
As a games company this act is to protect the games company’s products and assets. If another company was to use a logo, part of a game, or anything legally owned by your company you are able to sue them to stop those stealing things that you own. This stops them making money from things they didn’t create.

• Official Secrets Act: “This is an act that prohibits current or former government employees, or anyone given access to sensitive information, from telling anyone else about their work.”
As a games company this act is to protect the country from people revealing information which could then be used to harm the country. Using this information in a game for example still counts as distributing the information.

• Obscene Publications Act 1959 & 1964: “This act set out what is regarded as obscene and unfit for publication in England and Wales.”
As a games company this act is to prevent obscene things being distributed (Gore, sensitive images/videos for example) as it can be harmful to people, children in particular. A certain amount is allowed if it is within context (war films are allowed gore like “Saving Private Ryan” )

• Protection of Children Act 1978: “This legislation provides protection for children against abuse and exploitation.”
As a games company this act is to protect children from various abuse and exploitation, in particular of the sexual nature.

¬Sources:
• http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethical
• http://www.nuj.org.uk/home/
• The book: Media Production By Heinemann
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaleWorlds



Distribution/Commissioning
The fresher game will be finished In February 2014. The Fresher Game will then be released soon after; once it has been made sure there are no bugs. I t will then be available via download on the college websites for potential students who are thinking of joining Doncaster College.
The people who would be paying us if this was a real world project would depend on the fact of what kind of game it was. If it was an “Indie” game without a publisher, all the money made will go to the company who will then pay the workers, whereas an “Indie” developer with a publisher, the money flow would be towards the publisher first who would take their cut. On the other hand if you are an “In-House” developer working for a publisher the money will go towards the publisher first and then to the developers or the workers could be paid monthly like any other business sector. Taleworlds, (who have 3 released games and one DLC) have sold approximately 2 million copies of all their games. If take an average price of £15 that is £30m. You then need to take a cut of what their publisher (Paradox Interactive) takes. I was unable to find that out but I heard of a 20%, if this is true the money earned by Taleworlds would be £24m. You then have to factor in wage costs for a maximum of 42 staff (as of May 2013), the cost of voice actors, the cost of the motion capture, the cost of renting out the space where they work(University Tech lab).
Commissioning someone to make a game is basically funding them the development costs (or part of) as well as telling them what they want made. This is usually done by big publisher who may want a new IP from a new studio or their old studio has stopped so they need a new one to release the sequels.
Sources:
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaleWorlds
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_Interactive
• http://archive.futurelab.org.uk/resources/documents/lit_reviews/Serious-Games_Interviews.pdf

On a personal note I'd love to improve my 3d modelling ability, I'm not too shocking on Maya now but in ZBrush I'm a wreck so any input would be welcome.

 

[Weren]

Here's the helmet I made textured: http://p3d.in/YmICX

I plan on making other variants of the coif, one with chainmail and one with the material being similar to this.

 

[DerGreif]

Here's the helmet I made textured: http://p3d.in/YmICX

I plan on making other variants of the coif, one with chainmail and one with the material being similar to this.

Looks very good! Very realistic! Maybe a little bit irregular dirt decal on the cloth texture, but it really is an excellent work. Wish I would have those abilities!

 

[Blobmania]

Here's the helmet I made textured: http://p3d.in/YmICX

I plan on making other variants of the coif, one with chainmail and one with the material being similar to this.

Really nice, I love the padded cloth texture you've got there.

 

[CurtisWS]

Good school, check out the Art Institute of Orange County.

you serious? good school for how much it charges students?

http://ge.artinstitutes.edu/programoffering/4001

100k, really?

even on the polycount forum, guys that went there said it's bad, some even take it off their resume because they say it makes them look bad.

here is a nice quote from Jon Jones:

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"Fact: As the guy that looks for people to contract and hire, I can count on one hand the number of new Art Institute grads I've seen that are employable upon graduation. Most need another 2 years of work before they'll be entry level, at which point they're ~$80k in debt fighting hundreds of unemployed devs to get a $40k job they're barely qualified for. Also, the Art Institute was sued by the government in 2011 for fraud for $11 billion because of their systemic unethical behavior signing up students to go into debt to attend the school, promising jobs where there were none and (in many cases) never had been.

Opinion: It's a giant, expensive scam. I look at every resume that crosses my desk, and my gut reaction at seeing "Art Institute" on there is "oh man, this person is going to SUCK." Sorry."

school MAY have few positives, but a lot of negatives and a giant debt in the end. by the way, for UK studios and rest, http://www.gamedevmap.com/. i am not advising you to avoid college all together, BUT if you are going for being an artist in industry, go to traditional art school where you WILL learn. because the field you are aiming for is almost impossible to get into and most guys in that field started off as being an artist or something else just to get to that position.

A LOT of people want to be a game designer.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

100k

bloody hell. that's insane. makes the 9,000 P.A. here in poundland look like spare change.

I've heard a lot of people saying that the game dev industry is pretty explotative, basically bending the law in terms of worker's rights. if you're an employer who can rely on the passion of your employees for games, you can pay them next to nothing and make them work ridiculous hours, because there's going to be a long line of people desperate to be part of your company.

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

As far as actual developers go, they do tend to get seriously overworked. Not underpaid, though. The industry tends to pay very well.

 

[RMOD-Dylan]

Good school, check out the Art Institute of Orange County.

you serious? good school for how much it charges students?

http://ge.artinstitutes.edu/programoffering/4001

100k, really?

even on the polycount forum, guys that went there said it's bad, some even take it off their resume because they say it makes them look bad.

here is a nice quote from Jon Jones:

隐藏

"Fact: As the guy that looks for people to contract and hire, I can count on one hand the number of new Art Institute grads I've seen that are employable upon graduation. Most need another 2 years of work before they'll be entry level, at which point they're ~$80k in debt fighting hundreds of unemployed devs to get a $40k job they're barely qualified for. Also, the Art Institute was sued by the government in 2011 for fraud for $11 billion because of their systemic unethical behavior signing up students to go into debt to attend the school, promising jobs where there were none and (in many cases) never had been.

Opinion: It's a giant, expensive scam. I look at every resume that crosses my desk, and my gut reaction at seeing "Art Institute" on there is "oh man, this person is going to SUCK." Sorry."

school MAY have few positives, but a lot of negatives and a giant debt in the end. by the way, for UK studios and rest, http://www.gamedevmap.com/. i am not advising you to avoid college all together, BUT if you are going for being an artist in industry, go to traditional art school where you WILL learn. because the field you are aiming for is almost impossible to get into and most guys in that field started off as being an artist or something else just to get to that position.

A LOT of people want to be a game designer.

Whatever man, take the quotes from people who didn't get jobs because they "graduated" with ****ty student portfolios consisting of one to two week class assignments. I've seen students graduate because they could afford it, not because they were good. However, I walked in after being self-taught for 5 years and refined my skills and learned techniques I wouldn't have found otherwise. I got a job because I was GOOD at it like a couple dozen students I knew. Want a job, post on polycount and be a bad ass at what you do, in the end, your work is what stands for itself.

My point being, if you NEED to be taught, go to college to get started. If you can figure it out in you're own time, use the internet. Most of the things we learned came from the internet too and professors told us a degree isnt worth the money we put in. I dropped out due to personal reasons but already was employed as a weapons modeler at a studio in Henderson. The Art Institute was expensive, but had industry professionals teaching us and I liked it.

 

[RMOD-Dylan]

100k

bloody hell. that's insane. makes the 9,000 P.A. here in poundland look like spare change.

I've heard a lot of people saying that the game dev industry is pretty explotative, basically bending the law in terms of worker's rights. if you're an employer who can rely on the passion of your employees for games, you can pay them next to nothing and make them work ridiculous hours, because there's going to be a long line of people desperate to be part of your company.

I worked for free for two months on a kickstarter project that failed with a team that never got paid. By the time they jumped me onto their deal with Sony Playstation Home I was fed up at the prospect of waiting 2 months for approval of my models from Sony to get paid. I still get invited to GDC though.