Observations from an old hand

[Ingolifs]

Your skill has an upper hard limit based on the number of attribute and focus points you have in a skill. I would like an unlimited system but alas it is not. ( (( Attribute * 14 ) -10) + ( Focus Point * 40) ) is what I've found, limit of 330. Corrections appreciated. Additionally, its much to late to learn anything new after a certain point in leveling, as the game runs out of SP for you to continue leveling up.

The new skill system is both more and less intuitive than Warband, I feel. More intuitive because at its most basic level it's 'Level up the thing by doing the thing'. Less intuitive because of all the stuff you mention. Also, what do you mean about the game running out of SP? Do you mean skill points?

 

[somethinglightthat]

The new skill system is both more and less intuitive than Warband, I feel. More intuitive because at its most basic level it's 'Level up the thing by doing the thing'. Less intuitive because of all the stuff you mention. Also, what do you mean about the game running out of SP? Do you mean skill points?

Yeah, you need an increasing amount of skill points to get to the next level while the game has a limited pool of sp made available through the combination of focus points and attribute points. Eventually the game runs out of available levels.

I rant for about 10 minutes on this here. There's a couple of errors in what I'm saying but its semi accurate and has been reliable in planning character progression. I welcome any corrections in my understanding of the system.

 

[Bannerman Man]

Thanks for that @Bannerman Man

No problem. Thanks for the formula you laid out in the comment above mine (great video too)!

The area I've been most disappointed in so far is to do with the game ecology and fief management. Yes we have a real economy and actions have consequences and there's politics, but it's all been implemented in the least interesting way. There's something about the impersonal menu-driven nature of it all, combined with the constant defections, declarations of war, village burnings, complete army annihilations and subsequent rapid respawnings and so forth - all driven by menu buttons rather than actual dialogue - that just makes me not care about any of it. I understand that back in the old days the dialogue-heavy aspects of both the original game and mods were simply a limitation of what could be done with the engine, but nevertheless I really miss the presence of actual conversation. It's a shame that the city and village scenes are all so beautifully crafted, yet there is little reason to see any of that when visiting a town.

There are definitely things to be said against designing an impersonal menu simulator, but I think there are also certain things to be gained by streamlining some of the more mundane aspects of the game. If I have to load a scene every time I just want to quickly find out some information, then the game can easily become a slog.

For instance, one of the recent changes that I think is a big improvement over the old system is hiring mercenaries from taverns. Before the change, I had to load in the tavern scene every time I wanted to know what kind and how many mercenaries were available for hire. Now, I can see all of this information (and also hire them) just by clicking to the tavern menu. In my opinion, there wasn't anything to be gained by forcing me to visit the tavern for this reason, and the dialog wasn't particularly interesting. It only served to slow me down (in a tedious way) if I was on a recruiting campaign after a loss or a pyrrhic victory. When you have to repeat the same task over and over, it can be beneficial to speed that process up, and menus are one way to accomplish that.

I agree that they need to find compelling reasons for us to visit these well crafted scenes, but hiding certain features behind a loading screen is not one of them, even at the cost of immersion. Not that you were suggesting that or anything, I just wanted to make that point.

 

[Ingolifs]

I agree that they need to find compelling reasons for us to visit these well crafted scenes, but hiding certain features behind a loading screen is not one of them, even at the cost of immersion. Not that you were suggesting that or anything, I just wanted to make that point.

Yes having to go into every scene to do basic transactions would be frustrating in the endgame, although I must confess I have an unusual amount of patience for that sort of thing.

I would've handled such things differently. Anything that becomes a pain in the ass to do (recruiting, selling stuff, etc) could be delegated to one of your companions. They may not do quite as good a job that you would do, but you'd save some time.

 

[stevehoos]

Something like random events that can trigger in town scenes when you walk through. It just amazes me that more wasn't done.

 

[Piconi]

I think trying to cater too much to the "new players" can lead to oversimplifying, that not even those same "new players" will like.
Firsy thing that comes to mind is having the most simplistic banners we can imagine in a game that has a banner in its name.
I really hope that design gets revisited sometime in the future, along with couple of others.

 

[Faebio]

Some mods in warband found a way to get the best of two worlds, a reason to visit and enjoy the scenes they've created but also not having to run through the same scenes again and again later in the game. The way they've done it is that you could only talk to traders and get to the keep after you've visited it once in person. I'd like to see that or something similiar in BL too

 

[Bannerman Man]

Some mods in warband found a way to get the best of two worlds, a reason to visit and enjoy the scenes they've created but also not having to run through the same scenes again and again later in the game. The way they've done it is that you could only talk to traders and get to the keep after you've visited it once in person. I'd like to see that or something similiar in BL too

So kind of like a Skyrim-esque waypoint system for fast travel? Not that Skyrim invented that.

 

[Shik]

Yeah there's not much to do inside the actual town scene except for your occasional gang fight or spy quest. Hopefully they do add more activities to do in the scenes so that the scene artists work doesn't go to waste.
Fief management and game ecology are a bit disappointing as you mentioned; you brought up Battle For Sicily and some of the stuff that Nijis was working on back in 2008 was already more intricate and tactical than what has made it in to bannerlord today

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/the-siege-of-gallianum-a-play-through-of-a-campaign-with-screenshots.53887/

Campaign decisions need to feel more meaningful and be more interesting than an endless slog of battles and sieges

I've been both amazed that the game has gotten this far from the river pirate hunting simulator it was in 2005 but also somewhat disappointed that certain things that have been around back then have not progressed as much as they should have

 

[stevehoos]

One thing I don't like either is the generic feeling to horses. In many M&B mods I had a good connection with my horse that I remembered.

 

[Pharoah]

I never played the original but was waiting for M&B2. Overall I've been really impressed (especially with the battles, etc which is what I wanted) but also with the villages, castles, vista, etc. Eg. One of my favourite views (which I don't take enough time of to actually enjoy) is the view out of Tubilis Castle (I think its called...on the peninsula where Aserai meets Vlandia. That is beautiful.
I got onto this game because I really enjoyed Kingdom Come Deliverance. Loved everything about it but also the fact that it forced you to visit every town, village, etc rather than spending hours just looking at a giant map with moving characters. There's so much of Bannerlord I haven't seen yet other than castles, forests and the odd open ground during battles (which I don't pay attention to other than for tactical purposes).
However, i totally agree with the whole diplomacy/influence points raised. I've raised some myself. I think that whole area isn't developed very much. The REASON for declaring war or peace is not there. Kingdoms don't go to war for sport. War is costly in lives and money and could ruin you in more ways than one (losing men, losing castles, losing ground, etc). Eg. what I raised yesterday (prob a bug) where I'm in Vlandia and we're at war with EVERYBODY!! thats like 150k strength vs 25k strength....or Poland taking on the USA. Thats silly. And you can't vote for peace either because all the vassals and king are "100% war".
There needs to be some sort of backstory, some sort of build up, some sort of reason for war and peace. Also, the way wars are declared makes no sense...Vlandia (western most kingdom) declaring war on Khuzait (eastern most kingdom). They can't even SEE each other. How? Why? Usually wars come from border clashes or land grabs or something.

 

[Pensaci]

There's something about the impersonal menu-driven nature of it all, combined with the constant defections, declarations of war, village burnings, complete army annihilations and subsequent rapid respawnings and so forth

this

 

[Sarkiss]

I have a fief that I don't visit. It has a prosperity of 3000 and I don't know if that's good or bad. It seems to run itself just fine. I have no idea what it is that prosperity, loyalty or security actually do - the game doesn't communicate it, and I never seem to be put into any position where I have to worry about it. When the game has underlying complexity that the player is supposed to pay attention to, it needs to somehow be communicated to the player.

spot on observation. max everything up through the 'dead' fief menu and say good bye to it (occasionally return to fight a siege, if you manage to get inside on time, that is). i started playing the original back when it was 0.7x. remember was so hyped when lords' capture was added in... but yeah, those days were filled with the expectations of what the game could become but it was through the mods and Brytenwalda-developed Viking Conquest that things were really pushed to the new level. I do hope it isnt going to be the case again.

Also, the way wars are declared makes no sense...Vlandia (western most kingdom) declaring war on Khuzait (eastern most kingdom). They can't even SEE each other. How? Why? Usually wars come from border clashes or land grabs or something.

couldn't agree more. parties crossing half a map to attack a faction is just wrong. there have to be other, more plausible ways to stir the gameworld into action than this nonsensical campaigns.