[observation] Is combat in .660 messed up in the timing?

[Teala]

I have noticed that there is something really different with how melee combat works and the distant a player swings(start and stop positions) seems to be longer than before.    I understand that Amagan said that the weapons now do stun at the start and end of their swing.  I think something messed up because it is also doing more or the same damage across the full swing of the weapon and he needs to revert back to .650 melee combat because with the current system people are able to kill with their backs to another player simply by chambering a blow and releasing it.  If you are standing at the right angle behind and they release the swing, it delivers full damage at the start of the swing and the sword or axe hasn't moved very far and if you are behind the player it will kill you...that is just so wrong.

This is how it should be(forgive my drawing I did this fast on paint program so it is a little off and exaggerated but you get the picture).

As it is now though it seems to distribute the damage the same no matter where the sword is in it's arc and delivers full damage.

Can anyone else verify this...because I swear this melee combat is so whacked compared to how .650 wass and .650 was awesome and now we're back to .640 or something weird and it seems off on the timing or damage seems off - but something has changed for the worse.  I shouldn't be able to kill someone standing behind me simply by chambering my swing and letting it go.  The sword should need so greater inertia for it to deliver max damage.  It doesn't seem to need that now.

 

[Night Ninja]

It's always been like that. You could (and still can) kill people with the backswing or the initial portion very easily.

 

[Manitas]

It was like that since when i can remember. I'm sure it happened being killed accidentally when standing behind someones back in .614

0.660 started out with melee FF on by default, and this is what brought out that ever existing problem.

 

[olo]

olo did a vertical swing. 
apparently there was a teammate directly behind him.
the teammate was cut in half
olo felt bad.

 

[Halcyon]

I think something messed up because it is also doing more or the same damage across the full swing of the weapon and he needs to revert back to .650 melee combat because with the current system people are able to kill with their backs to another player simply by chambering a blow and releasing it.

There is no reason to say this. (it just means you really dislike this version)

Attacks at the beginning/end of their arc get more stun.

It is quite possible that there is no damage differentiation, or that it could be bugged. Also remember that weapons do more damage when in their *maximum range*

 

[Teala]

I think something messed up because it is also doing more or the same damage across the full swing of the weapon and he needs to revert back to .650 melee combat because with the current system people are able to kill with their backs to another player simply by chambering a blow and releasing it.

There is no reason to say this. (it just means you really dislike this version)

No...I am just saying that .650's version of combat was not like this, and it wasn't, in this version it is all whacked.  I wouldn't be saying this if I didn't experience it.  They need to look at .650 and .660 to see if something changed - because from my experience something changed.

 

[Teala]

Also, what is with the shield animation?  Sometimes when blocking it makes the animation as if you are equiping the shield.

 

[inox_ionizer]

I think it's the parry animation for shield. Don't think it's working properly though.

 

[Stabbing Hobo]

I tested this out earlier today, it is as stated in the first post. I'm quite sure it's a bug.

 

[ares007]

Also, what is with the shield animation?  Sometimes when blocking it makes the animation as if you are equiping the shield.

It is the parry animation. I think they need to make the circle a lot smaller.


as to the OP... in .650 (earlier) combat I've also come across people getting killed by standing behind someone attacking. As Night Ninja has said, this has been a problem for a long time in Warband. Perhaps it is more obvious now with the default melee FF and supa-long weapons.

 

[Stabbing Hobo]

No, it hasn't been like this in the previous version. Just try it. Have someone stand behind you and do an overhead. In .660 it's an instant kill.

 

[Reapy]

Just to add in here, I noticed thrust also was killing at point black as usual again. There is a longer wind up time, but as soon as the blade touches someone on its way forward, it is insta hit at full damage it seems.

 

[HTAPAWASO]

No, it hasn't been like this in the previous version. Just try it. Have someone stand behind you and do an overhead. In .660 it's an instant kill.

Yes, it has  been like this. For as long as I can recall.

The only reason people notice it now is that melee-FF is turned on.

 

[Stabbing Hobo]

No, it hasn't been like this in the previous version. Just try it. Have someone stand behind you and do an overhead. In .660 it's an instant kill.

Yes, it has  been like this. For as long as I can recall.

The only reason people notice it now is that melee-FF is turned on.

I haven't tried all the versions, but in versions 610-650 an overhead did minimal or no damage to the person standing behind them.

 

[HTAPAWASO]

No, it hasn't been like this in the previous version. Just try it. Have someone stand behind you and do an overhead. In .660 it's an instant kill.

Yes, it has  been like this. For as long as I can recall.

The only reason people notice it now is that melee-FF is turned on.

I haven't tried all the versions, but in versions 610-650 an overhead did minimal or no damage to the person standing behind them.

It's always done huge damage when I've tried it...

Don't remember what version it was, so maybe it changes regularly...

 

[kingofnoobia]

I agree fully with the OP. This is something that requires a fix. Also don't forget the stab. It still deals out full damage at the very start of it (the infamous instastab). However, .650 definitely didn't do a better job at this specific point. The stabbing especially was just terrible.

 

[Urist]

I don't know for sure about .650 because I didn't play it so much but
before that attacks got a hefty speed malus(-90%) at the end/beginning of a swing.
Same for stab when being close.

The overhead attack did no damage even with a warhammer when hitting
someone when turned 180 degree.
This is totally different now and it sucks. You always do full damage now.

I can't believe this is intended by the developers. It must be a bug.
Throwing such an awesome mechanic like damage penaltly for overturned
swings/facehug stabs overboard would be kinda stupid.

This is also one reason why melee ff was received so negativly by many players.
You always do full damage now even to a guy behind or at your side,
leading to unintended insta-kills of friendlies.

 

[Yellonet]

Unfortunately it's always been like that. It's one of the top 3 things I want to change as it would mean a lot to the combat.

 

[Urist]

It's not always been like that.
Like I said there was a hefty damage reduce(-90%) for too far turned swings
and "too close to target" stabs one or two patches ago.

This mechanic even exists in 1.011, yet alot weaker (-40% I think).
Test it if you still have it installed. There is a dummy in the "riding a horse"
tutorial. You will see that there is a penalty for close stabs and turned swings.
It's different in the current Warband version.


For whatever reason that mechanic is not used anymore.
The only weapon getting reduce is the pike now when being close.
My guess is that they screwed with the speed malus when
implementing the "stun through speed bonus" stuff.

Making this problem even worse is that far turned attacks often
hit the head because of the animation.
It wasn't that much of a problem before because the damage reduce kicked
in. Now it deals full damage - to the head, insta death.

 

[kingofnoobia]

You are probably right, urist, that it is worse now, but it has never been working well anyway. In .650 spinning was used a lot, if the system had been working as intended, it should have made spinning a lot less effective.