NW melee and MM melee : Poll

NW or MM melee?

  • NW

    Votes: 171 45.6%
  • MM

    Votes: 204 54.4%

  • Total voters
    375

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Punishment said:
we come here today to talk about how the new patch made the upper stab useless  and Cav even more OP
I also don't quite get it. Why should the upper stab be slower and shorter? I didn't find it unrealistic before.
 
Hopefully after this patch all the people who disliked the melee will finally be happy and no further changes will be needed.
 
Readying animation is 0.15 seconds slower, meaning the animation between holding it normally in your hands towards raising it above your head. no other speed change was made.

I think it adds realism... and balances the longer upstab range and possibility to hit the head, against the lower stab.
 
JackieChan said:
Hopefully after this patch all the people who disliked the melee will finally be happy and no further changes will be needed.
Since turning speed remained the same, think, they won't :roll:
 
- Reduced the length of the bayonet slightly.
- Increased the length of all cavalry swords.
- Made the readying animation for the upper stab slower.
- Upper stab chamber attacks are now not blockable anymore just like the lower stab.
- People getting bumped by a horse now stay on the ground a bit longer before getting up.
- Removed the damage a rider would receive when his horse dies.
- Horses don’t rear up anymore when hit by a bayonet to their front.
- Reduced the amount of bullets and damage of the Musketoon.

Now only if I could have the ability to chamber the upstabs without tons of luck in the first place. Spin speed never got 'fixed' either, and now that it's slower, the argument "NW is more fast paced and gritty" is starting to go out the window methinks. I don't think a lot of us are happy still. Cavalry swords got longer...? Well... Eh. I can't say much.
 
I feel soooo slow with this new patch....It seems like they are trying to encourage anything but a bayonet for melee. Because the other patch, 1.005, Increased the speed of rifles and cavalry muskets in melee combat, now they are in just a completely different league than bayonets. They also shortened the bayonet and made the sword longer, throwing out the length bonus the bayonet had on any other weapons, because technically, the bayonet is a polearm. Now, I feel as if i'm wielding a short pointy stick with a giant rock tying it down...
 
And the line between the skilled players and the pubs grows ever shorter...The next step is reduced spin time, and then the regiments who will be on top are those who are the biggest, and the elite regiments will be null and void.
 
DrTaco said:
Now only if I could have the ability to chamber the upstabs without tons of luck in the first place. Spin speed never got 'fixed' either, and now that it's slower, the argument "NW is more fast paced and gritty" is starting to go out the window methinks. I don't think a lot of us are happy still. Cavalry swords got longer...? Well... Eh. I can't say much.

The upstab is quite chamberable, atleast now if you take the risk to try it, you will get pay-off. So that's a step in the right direction is it not?

AP0C0LYPS3 said:
I feel soooo slow with this new patch....It seems like they are trying to encourage anything but a bayonet for melee. Because the other patch, 1.005, Increased the speed of rifles and cavalry muskets in melee combat, now they are in just a completely different league than bayonets. They also shortened the bayonet and made the sword longer, throwing out the length bonus the bayonet had on any other weapons, because technically, the bayonet is a polearm. Now, I feel as if i'm wielding a short pointy stick with a giant rock tying it down...

The speed increase on fire-arms used as clubs was done because of the crazy speedbonus they were getting with their slow speeds so that they would do less damage than bayonets. The bayos were shortened to make pokes less prevalent as well as increase chamber unblockability. And swords had longer reach even before 1.005 afaik.

There are a lot of flaws with melee in general, but lets atleast try to understand the changes before demonizing everything. That way it's easier for all parties to discuss and work on the actual flaws.
 
It's able to be chambered with high risk yet hardly any reward. Yes it can't be blocked, but you still have to start spinning around if you want to have reliable damage on the ****er, or else it's a 50/50 of a headshot instakill or a glance, and that's infinitely more annoying than just blocking it. And yes, it is a step in the right direction. Though if it takes this long to have a step, I could very well be playing Mount & Blade 2.
 
DrTaco said:
It's able to be chambered with high risk yet hardly any reward. Yes it can't be blocked, but you still have to start spinning around if you want to have reliable damage on the ******, or else it's a 50/50 of a headshot instakill or a glance, and that's infinitely more annoying than just blocking it.

To tell an anecdote: I was duelling Devon a few weeks ago. Both us were blocking solidly and not much stuff was happening. I decided to chamber his overheads once in a while. Could chamber them roughly 75% of the time (times I attempted it that is), something like that, but Devon just blocked all of them. When he did a downstab once in a while that I chambered I had a chamber success rate around 80-90% I would say, with more than half of the down chambers landing and doing damage. Accordingly he stopped doing down attacks, and chambering became useless. Now atleast eventually when I chamber his upstabs I will get one through.
 
Hekko said:
DrTaco said:
It's able to be chambered with high risk yet hardly any reward. Yes it can't be blocked, but you still have to start spinning around if you want to have reliable damage on the ******, or else it's a 50/50 of a headshot instakill or a glance, and that's infinitely more annoying than just blocking it.

To tell an anecdote: I was duelling Devon a few weeks ago. Both us were blocking solidly and not much stuff was happening. I decided to chamber his overheads once in a while. Could chamber them roughly 75% of the time (times I attempted it that is), something like that, but Devon just blocked all of them. When he did a downstab once in a while that I chambered I had a chamber success rate around 80-90% I would say, with more than half of the down chambers landing and doing damage. Accordingly he stopped doing down attacks, and chambering became useless. Now atleast eventually when I chamber his upstabs I will get one through.
Ehm, I might be imagining this, but I was dueling Tav before and he could block every single one of my overhead chambers with ease. I chambered and he simply blocked, it almost felt like it was easier than before.
And another thing is that now, when you kick and you do not have your bayonet raised in advance for a overhead stab, then a overhead stab after the kick is useless. The enemy has loads of time to still block the overhead. It might not always be the case, but when I was dueling before it happened again and again.
Also it is true that now the bayonet feels really underpowered, I was killed half the time by a flutist with a butterknife, simply because he was faster.
 
JackieChan said:
Hekko said:
DrTaco said:
It's able to be chambered with high risk yet hardly any reward. Yes it can't be blocked, but you still have to start spinning around if you want to have reliable damage on the ******, or else it's a 50/50 of a headshot instakill or a glance, and that's infinitely more annoying than just blocking it.

To tell an anecdote: I was duelling Devon a few weeks ago. Both us were blocking solidly and not much stuff was happening. I decided to chamber his overheads once in a while. Could chamber them roughly 75% of the time (times I attempted it that is), something like that, but Devon just blocked all of them. When he did a downstab once in a while that I chambered I had a chamber success rate around 80-90% I would say, with more than half of the down chambers landing and doing damage. Accordingly he stopped doing down attacks, and chambering became useless. Now atleast eventually when I chamber his upstabs I will get one through.
Ehm, I might be imagining this, but I was dueling Tav before and he could block every single one of my overhead chambers with ease. I chambered and he simply blocked, it almost felt like it was easier than before.
And another thing is that now, when you kick and you do not have your bayonet raised in advance for a overhead stab, then a overhead stab after the kick is useless. The enemy has loads of time to still block the overhead. It might not always be the case, but when I was dueling before it happened again and again.
Also it is true that now the bayonet feels really underpowered, I was killed half the time by a flutist with a butterknife, simply because he was faster.

On the one point you made, Jackie. Why on earth would you want to do an overhead after kicking someone? Even before the update, surely that wasn't as effective as the normal stab? That is not really a legitimate point at all, since a kick is basically a free kill with the stab from the hip. However, I do agree with most of what you said, but I still think the melee is slightly better after the patch, simply because of the reduction in overhead spamming. After close to 400 duels I feel that I actually have to think again. The most annoying thing now though is the stun you get if someone blocks your overhead.
 
Less bayonet length = less stubs and better chambering, it's a good move. It would help if the model was actually shortened too, but perhaps that's too much to ask.

Slower overhead = less overhead spam and more use of what should be the primary attack: the downstab.

Overall the patch has done good.

The very last things that need/ought to be changed are: making tap-blocking faster and a small/medium turning speed increase. This will help make attacking play less risky, because players will have the security in being able to change from mid-stab to block faster and turn fast enough to face surrounding enemies. I was watching the Groupfighting Tournament 10 last night (before the patch) and I essentially saw that it was often the team that took attacking initiative that lost, even sometimes seeing the players simply stand and stare at eachother waiting for the others to make a move. In the MM tournaments you never saw that, and often attacking teams won the tournament. We're playing melee to kill the other opponent, so we need a melee system that encourages rather than discourages attack, and those 2 changes will help push it even further in the right direction. Then you'll have a melee system approaching on-par with MM.

But yeah, this patch, like the last one, has done a lot of good and pushed melee in the right direction.
 
Vincenzo said:
Readying animation is 0.15 seconds slower, meaning the animation between holding it normally in your hands towards raising it above your head. no other speed change was made.

I think it adds realism... and balances the longer upstab range and possibility to hit the head, against the lower stab.

I don't care about realism and I hope others don't either. However, I think the changes were for the best and I thank you for doing them as the overhead is very '<3' now and not the OP crap it was.

The lower stab possibly feels like it has been buffed due to the nerf placed onto the OH.

But as I said, good job from me and I type from a game play point of view which is backed by the line of thought that OH should be a supporting attack and not an insta-win card which most of the whiners pull.

  :cool:
 
Matim said:
Kipsleverworst said:
MM for more kills and NW for realism
True

The only thing i liked in old melee was being unstopable rambo. In NW it's not easy to fight 10 ppl at once, like it was in MM :smile:

Oh but it is, fighting a group of people is the funnest melee scenario you can get. I played Mount and musket when it was dieing, so i didn't get good experience of it. And I did no tlike the upstab attack for the bayonet, which is why I liked Napoleonic Wars. (So much for that, R.I.P good melee)
 
As I predicted. The slightest change in favor of one half of the community brings on the rage fest of the other half lol.
Lets all take a few days to get used to the new patch (I haven't even had a chance to play it yet damn timezone) but am interested in how the changes have affected the gameplay. Will give my feedback after a day or two.

EDIT: Ok so far out of today's testing I can tell that the new patch has lowered my ability to lucky bayonet spam to win fights.  I find that its easier to make out when someone is about to upper stab which means you have a fraction of a second more time to prepare a block. While this is helpful it also means elite players are kicking the arse they rightfully deserve lol.
Also cavalry is much more lethal now, I regret having tried to step infront of an oncoming cavalry man in the usual upper stab bayonet fashion.

will say more in 2-3 days time once I've gotten more playtime under my belt.

 
Xeroth said:
And I did no tlike the upstab attack for the bayonet, which is why I liked Napoleonic Wars.
Ahem, you did not like upstab attack, which is why you liked NW? I would like to remind you that there was no upstab attack before (ie. in MM). There was upper bash, upper swin or whatever you call it.
 
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