NPC interaction in Bannerlord

[lolbash]

Based off the Gamescom demos we have seen, there is not enough interaction options in Bannerlord.

Notables: We can only talk to them to ask for quests, or say goodbye. Why are we still roleplaying as the "fetch boy" who takes quests fron strangers?

I want to insult a Notable, for having an ugly outfit, or giving me a bad quest that is below my level. I want to be able to exchange money for additional favors such as information or relationship boosts from other people. I want to discuss politics with him, argue with him in hopes to change his ideals, so he can vote on kingdom laws assuming that the Notable is in a circle with enough power to influence laws or similar manners.

I also do not see Notables being active in the game world. As it looks like right now, they seem to be only sitting in one location with quests waiting for the player to approach them to ask for them. We can fix this by having them sending out messengers and scouts, have them traveling around to do tasks, and having them interact with other NPCs and have them change relations, influencing their views and their quests that are given to the player. They should also reach out to the player or lords by sending messengers to the player asking to do favors, or a party of warriors to attack people they don't like and their important people around them if they detest their target.

Notables should be very important people that influence the game world in many ways, but they only seem to be statues that only exist to pump out soldiers and quests for the player.

In addition

https://steamcommunity.com/games/261550/announcements/detail/1441571497971353722

our common quests are dynamically created by the current state of the world. This means that we don’t just spawn in characters or create the conditions for a quest, but rather that the game looks to see what is currently happening and offers a mission based on what is available.

Has this system been scrapped? Because in the Gamescom demo I do not see a system like this, as it seems they have spawned a caravan and bandits attacking the caravan in the demo.

Notables are not the only one with this problem

Thugs are uninteractable in the demo. Maybe the crime system was cut out because it is not finished, but I am dissapointed that we cannot bribe the thugs to join our party, or take over their location for ourselves and set up our own gang.

Townspeople are still dissapointingly have not many interaction. No option to say "You make a fine warrior, join me". Or no option to ask them to join you in the peasant rebellion against the guards or thugs controlling the city. No option to donate them money if they are from a poor background.

Guards are also the same as Warband. No option to ask them for the location of the lord. There is also no option to ask them to "follow me" to help you take out a thug controlled area in the town or as protection because you feel unsafe.

Shopkeepers and caravans too. Is it possible to buy an entire caravan or shop? If I am rich enough and want to buy an entire caravan I should have the option, and not just trade goods.

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Seems as Bannerlord how is in demo not is than a improved version or remake of Warband, is weird as NPC interaction not was changed at all. What's happened with promises regarding crime system

 

[RoboSenshi]

Very good points being made. I like to think interactions were watered down for the demo. The dynamic quests and the rest will probably make it into the final product.

I recall a video showing a situation were you could ask a towns person to lead you to a notable. It was pretty cool, although it caused a crash. It's a nice addition.

 

[Rulin]

Yeah, it would be fun to be able to insult everyone. Afaik every npc has a relation value with you, so it shouldn't be a big freature to implement.
Just a small minus... depending on the insult.

And maybe, if there is also a persuasion stat like in warband, the option to make compliments (or witty jokes) for a little relation boost.

Jokes, insults and compliments should be choosen from a pool that is sorted into categories like:
On the battlefield or during a war campain, in court, in a tavern, on the streets, during a tournament...

 

[vicwiz007]

Yeah I agree. I want to believe a lot of it was taken out just for the demo, but I think we shouldn't assume stuff like that because it gets our expectations too high.

All I was thinking whenever the player interacted with an NPC was "where is the diplomacy/trade screen?" That screen should be available for every notable, every lord, every party on the campaign map, no matter what. It should give you options like letting you negotiate with bandits "hey give me 100 gold and i wont kill you". You can work out deals like in Total War with the bar showing likelyhood of them to accept. So maybe you demand all their horses, food and weapons. They either counter offer or take their chances fighting you. I think everyone gets the jist.

One thing I would like to add, is that I noticed notables do have caravans they send out. So it's not too outlandish to imagine they do more than just sit in the village giving quests. This, at the very least, means you can hurt them financially, but I'm not sure what that would actually do. Maybe that makes them have less recruits available for the local lords or something. I guess it would hurt the entire town's economy.

I doubt they scrapped the dynamic quest generation though. It's more likely they limited it to just these three quests that are sure to be there so the testers would have a few possible quests to get. Maybe some of them even were dynamic like the trial by combat one, maybe the two notables in question have some feud going on.

 

[kreamy]

Based off the Gamescom demos we have seen, there is not enough interaction options in Bannerlord.

Notables: We can only talk to them to ask for quests, or say goodbye. Why are we still roleplaying as the "fetch boy" who takes quests fron strangers?

I want to insult a Notable, for having an ugly outfit, or giving me a bad quest that is below my level. I want to be able to exchange money for additional favors such as information or relationship boosts from other people. I want to discuss politics with him, argue with him in hopes to change his ideals, so he can vote on kingdom laws assuming that the Notable is in a circle with enough power to influence laws or similar manners.

I also do not see Notables being active in the game world. As it looks like right now, they seem to be only sitting in one location with quests waiting for the player to approach them to ask for them. We can fix this by having them sending out messengers and scouts, have them traveling around to do tasks, and having them interact with other NPCs and have them change relations, influencing their views and their quests that are given to the player. They should also reach out to the player or lords by sending messengers to the player asking to do favors, or a party of warriors to attack people they don't like and their important people around them if they detest their target.

Notables should be very important people that influence the game world in many ways, but they only seem to be statues that only exist to pump out soldiers and quests for the player.

In addition

https://steamcommunity.com/games/261550/announcements/detail/1441571497971353722

our common quests are dynamically created by the current state of the world. This means that we don’t just spawn in characters or create the conditions for a quest, but rather that the game looks to see what is currently happening and offers a mission based on what is available.

Has this system been scrapped? Because in the Gamescom demo I do not see a system like this, as it seems they have spawned a caravan and bandits attacking the caravan in the demo.

Notables are not the only one with this problem

Thugs are uninteractable in the demo. Maybe the crime system was cut out because it is not finished, but I am dissapointed that we cannot bribe the thugs to join our party, or take over their location for ourselves and set up our own gang.

Townspeople are still dissapointingly have not many interaction. No option to say "You make a fine warrior, join me". Or no option to ask them to join you in the peasant rebellion against the guards or thugs controlling the city. No option to donate them money if they are from a poor background.

Guards are also the same as Warband. No option to ask them for the location of the lord. There is also no option to ask them to "follow me" to help you take out a thug controlled area in the town or as protection because you feel unsafe.

Shopkeepers and caravans too. Is it possible to buy an entire caravan or shop? If I am rich enough and want to buy an entire caravan I should have the option, and not just trade goods.

+1 but as it stands its looking like a lot of content is placeholders from warband.

I like to think they will get to work on the points you have made. Well see next year at gamescom whats new 

 

[Ragratt]

You make good points.  I’d like to see one unique quest per notable and a higher level of interaction.  One of the more interesting things to consider is how quests are approached from an authoritative role.  The player should be giving quests, making demands, threats and insults if desired.  The player is powerful and while notables may be influential the player character will quickly rise above them.

More quests should be available for player to give characters in player’s court / allies / followers / noteables.  Such quests should have multiple paths for completion.

Based on objective, player could give one of multiple quests to several different notables. Depending on their skills, contacts, influence and motives the player given quest will pass / fail w/ varying consequences.

In many cases quests given to player could involve giving tasks to other characters, notables and party members, to complete based on their unique skills.  A party member with high trade and persuasion might be sent on diplomatic mission to open new trade route (pass/ fail). An engineer could be sent with a team to weaken /strengthen defenses (varying success).

Even more interesting would be assembling a team to send on quests or to assist notables.  For example player character’s son has gone missing.  Notable in town has criminal connections and because he may have been kidnapped is sent with party members to help find / negotiate.  Among this party are follower with tracking and spotting skill and another with medic and surgery.  In this example the son was attacked and taken by bandits, because the player was able to enlist the help of someone with criminal connections the sent party are given a bonus modifier to successfully find son. This plus combined tracking and spotting skill are required to pass skillcheck for success in finding son. Once found there is a persuasion skillcheck to release captive without fight, this also determines cost (varying success). Since we sent right notable the party is able to negotiate release. Quest ends in success.

Alternate scenario:
Player sends strong warrior notable to find missing son who is suspected to be taken by bandits as captive.  Combined tracking and spotting skill allow party to find son and bandits.  Warrior notable and troop strength allow bandits to be soundly defeated. Perhaps in this case combat strength it was high enough to kill the bandits but not high enough to release the son without injury. In this case medic skill is required to stabilize his condition and bring him home safely.  Many outcomes are possible here and the story the player is told writes itself dynamically.  The story is the end result of player choices reacting to a predefined scenario. The results don’t require player to complete them, but the results can be arguably no less interesting or game changing.

The possibilities for this type of quest are endless but rarely implemented as stated by OP.  It requires player to be in a position of authority and power. I’d also like to see other characters on their own quests.  Maybe they require something of the player that for some of such high station is easily given (supply grain, release husband from prison), but instead of them giving a quest/ reward, the player is a able to use this leverage to send them on a quest of their own in exchange for favor.

To summarize, I’d like to see taken and given quests.  Two different tabs. Maybe half the quests in late-game should be quest given by player to other characters. These quests should have dynamic and interesting short stories w multiple endings and varying success depending on player-made choices. Player should be able to excercise their power and authority over NPCs in game through dialogue choices and quests.

 

[berriah]

that's some great ideas u have there, i like this very much

this's what make the game more realistic and enjoyable even after hundred hours playing, but i think some of them require so much time and efforts

 

[Roccoflipside]

+Rainbow, There was a (somewhat) large list posted somewhere on here by Armagan containing all the features cut from the demo due to time constraint, exp. of demo-ers, and what TW's was trying to show off, I'll try to find it. I believe gangs/crime was on there somewhere, as well as several other mid-late game features. As far as paying for extra relations etc., isn't that what the influence is supposed to be used for? And also, a peasant/unknown warrior doesn't have enough renown/etc. to be given anything other than a "fetch" quest probably. My guess is quests were as limited by player level and ability as they were by TW's themselves dumbing the game down a bit for a demo.

Edit: found it

Spoiler

Armagan
Primary Developer
Developer
Re: Dev Blog 16/08/18
« Reply #98 on: August 17, 2018, 05:06:09 PM »
Quote
Many thanks to everyone for their comments. The team here is working really hard to get the demo ready for Gamescom and we really appreciate your support.

Just to clarify a few things, the build we'll have in the booth will be different from the current development build in that, some features and pieces of content have been disabled. There are mainly two reasons for this. First, we want to focus our efforts on polishing the features that will be of most use in the demo. Disabling the rest allows us better manage our resources and time. Second, we do not want to reveal all the features and content in a single demo. We'd rather leave a good portion of the game as a surprise.

Here's a list of some of the things that are missing/disabled: 
Sieges
Crafting
Character generation
Kingdom and town management
About 2/3 of town scenes. We selected 2 town scenes per culture and all towns will be showing those.
Most companions are disabled. There will be around 10 that are available.
About 2/3 of planned perks are not yet implemented.

The suggestion to release this version as a demo sounds interesting, but that doesn't fit any existing model and it would take a lot of time and effort to hammer out the details and make this work. I would rather put that effort into development and do a proper early access version.

Based on objective, player could give one of multiple quests to several different notables. Depending on their skills, contacts, influence and motives the player given quest will pass / fail w/ varying consequences.

In many cases quests given to player could involve giving tasks to other characters, notables and party members, to complete based on their unique skills.  A party member with high trade and persuasion might be sent on diplomatic mission to open new trade route (pass/ fail). An engineer could be sent with a team to weaken /strengthen defenses (varying success).

Even more interesting would be assembling a team to send on quests or to assist notables.  For example player character’s son has gone missing.  Notable in town has criminal connections and because he may have been kidnapped is sent with party members to help find / negotiate.  Among this party are follower with tracking and spotting skill and another with medic and surgery.  In this example the son was attacked and taken by bandits, because the player was able to enlist the help of someone with criminal connections the sent party are given a bonus modifier to successfully find son. This plus combined tracking and spotting skill are required to pass skillcheck for success in finding son. Once found there is a persuasion skillcheck to release captive without fight, this also determines cost (varying success). Since we sent right notable the party is able to negotiate release. Quest ends in success.

Alternate scenario:
Player sends strong warrior notable to find missing son who is suspected to be taken by bandits as captive.  Combined tracking and spotting skill allow party to find son and bandits.  Warrior notable and troop strength allow bandits to be soundly defeated. Perhaps in this case combat strength it was high enough to kill the bandits but not high enough to release the son without injury. In this case medic skill is required to stabilize his condition and bring him home safely.  Many outcomes are possible here and the story the player is told writes itself dynamically.  The story is the end result of player choices reacting to a predefined scenario. The results don’t require player to complete them, but the results can be arguably no less interesting or game changing.

The possibilities for this type of quest are endless but rarely implemented as stated by OP.  It requires player to be in a position of authority and power. I’d also like to see other characters on their own quests.  Maybe they require something of the player that for some of such high station is easily given (supply grain, release husband from prison), but instead of them giving a quest/ reward, the player is a able to use this leverage to send them on a quest of their own in exchange for favor.

To summarize, I’d like to see taken and given quests.  Two different tabs. Maybe half the quests in late-game should be quest given by player to other characters. These quests should have dynamic and interesting short stories w multiple endings and varying success depending on player-made choices. Player should be able to excercise their power and authority over NPCs in game through dialogue choices and quests.

Personally that sounds boring as hell. I don't want to send another character out, then wait around in his village/town to see if he even comes back, let alone how successful he was. M&B, for me at least, is about being able to be in all the situations, rather than sending people out to fight for me. I would say giving quests to companions could be for things you need but don't want to do, i.e. sending a companion to buy food/supplies, or similar tasks, not the actual important quests that get me into the reason I'm playing the game.

 

[Ragratt]

You may be missing the point. The player being the quest giver expands player influence and adds an entirely new dynamic.  In addition the way I outlined it also gives a huge variety in results based on character decision and NPC stats.  The best part about it is that an interesting and dynamically generates storyline results when the NPC has completed quest. It is unreasonable to assume that a king or lord would complete quests for peasants and vassals. This is why such a mechanic would be an excellent endgame.  It would not replace player centric quests but be an addition to the late game experience.  I also don’t agree it’s boring the player gets to assign tasks to most suitable NPC and in some cases chose how they are to accomplish a task.

The player cannot be everywhere at once and do all things.  The player’s ability to assign quests to NPCs not Just militarily and politically but for all type of tasks is important for this reason.  At the very least I’d like this mechanic to be implemented in thrown room of castles and towns.  Player could assemble a court to advise and complete mini quests in the locale for the player.  The result of such missions would alter the state of affairs in the area. Warband had player given quests in limited fashion they could send followers on quests or assemble war parties.

I’d like to see player given quests expanded much much further to give player a sense of power and influence over the game world and NPCs and add depth of interaction that is currently lacking. The stories generated from the result of these quests would keep them entertaining and the result would often be different depending on NPC stats and player choice so that really, even if player is not fully actively involved their decisions at outset or at key points in quest line would still ultimately decide the end result provided NPC(s) have necessary stats for a desirable ending. I can’t think of any game that has quest system similar to this with such depth, but it’d be a perfect fit for M&B and well for the effort. I’ll go so far as to say Bannerlord will be incomplete without a similar player generated quest system.

 

[lolbash]

Personally that sounds boring as hell. I don't want to send another character out, then wait around in his village/town to see if he even comes back, let alone how successful he was. M&B, for me at least, is about being able to be in all the situations, rather than sending people out to fight for me.

You can do other things while you wait for him to report back on the sucess of his mission. And yes you can still take part in these activities yourself, but surely you have probably other priorities you want to take and want to give the less fun tasks to other lords to take care of do you?

Scenario:

I want to siege an Aserai town. But if I leave to siege my town will start being infested by bandits and I lose money.

I can singlehandedly take out each bandit myself, but I find that unfun and want to siege an Aserai town. What I can do is tell a lord to take out bandits in my town, so I can focus on having fun and sieging a city.


If you thing this is boring and want to fight bandits, then there is nothing stopping you from not sending out a lord and fighting both bandits.

I don't see how you can think this is a megative. Is it because you think the concept of acting as a commander is boring? Because Mount and Blade is about choice, and I explained how you do not have to be a commander. Or do you think something about my suggestion will harm the game?

 

[Roccoflipside]

Rather than send someone to fight the bandits, I'd rather be able to leave a garrison to maintain the siege while I go handle the bandits with a smaller party. I suppose I'm just on the opposite side from you on this, I'd rather leave an NPC to "govern" while I go out an complete quests. Also, I in no way meant to say "This shouldn't be in the game at all", rather putting my p.o.v. out there that sending npc's to do my quests would kind of defeat the purpose of the game for me.

 

[lolbash]

So I guess you just find the concept of commanding boring and unfun. Thats fine. But there is no need to go against my request for more NPC interaction options since the idea is that this is entirely optional, and you can still take quests if you want.

But for me, I hope there are more ways to talk to NPCs than just "give me a quest" and "goodbye".

 

[Roccoflipside]

So I guess you just find the concept of commanding boring and unfun. Thats fine. But there is no need to go against my request for more NPC interaction options since the idea is that this is entirely optional, and you can still take quests if you want.

But for me, I hope there are more ways to talk to NPCs than just "give me a quest" and "goodbye".

Also, I in no way meant to say "This shouldn't be in the game at all"

Maybe you missed this part, I'll repeat myself.

Anyway, I don't find commanding "boring and unfun", rather I just personally don't feel that specific circumstance matches my M&B playstyle. But hey, if it's in there I'd probably still use it from time to time. I'm just saying I prefer to be present when I play M&B, rather than just sending/relying on someone else to do it for me.

 

[lolbash]

So you didn't come to comment on NPC interactions in Bannerlord, or my suggestions and complaints, but rather you just came to tell everyone here that you don't like being a commander?

At the very least critque one of my suggestions or expand on my ideas, and not just tell people here that you don't like playing MnB a certain way. That does nothing but detour the thread.

 

[Orion]

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're ignoring everything you say & undermining your discussion. Chill out.

 

[FBohler]

I kind of agree with the OP, I could even tell some of the lines being straight from Warband. Let's just hope TaleWorlds is hiding some chunk of content to save for later blogs and reveals.

 

[monoolho]

Very much agree. +1, Rainbow. The game absolutely needs more depth of interaction. I want those "useless" choices of "Art thov daft, thov degenerate scvm? I won't join thine campaign!" because I want to have some personality when speaking to people I hate or love in the game. I know it is a hell of a thing, and it's usually two-dimensional: polite x impolite, but it is enough to add flavour to the game. I also agree with Ragratt, being a quest giver is honestly a roleplaying dream. Even if it may seem boring to some, as the boondock saint pointed it out, it would still add more depth to the game overall. The problem is: it has to be well done.

 

[Wulfburk]

And about sea raiders and other small parties. You should be able to bribe them into  your force, or bribe them to raid another land, or just to get the heck out of your territory.


But from the looks of it, the choice we get in such interactions are as short as in Warband. Basically, "leave", "fight"

 

[NPC99]

And about sea raiders and other small parties. You should be able to bribe them into  your force, or bribe them to raid another land, or just to get the heck out of your territory.


But from the looks of it, the choice we get in such interactions are as short as in Warband. Basically, "leave", "fight"

+1 I’ll need to bribe them until I remember how to fight. 

Also, the player giving quests to anyone would complicate world map ai so I doubt we see that other than as quests to companions or influence bought missions for same faction Lords. I’m sure you will be able to spend influence to get another Lord to patrol your fief etc. That’s the point of the influence system.

However, additional simple dialogue options should be possible to add/mod. For example:

Insult (anyone) - relationship always reduced (with a 10% chance of a duel with minor ai Lords only - not clan or faction leaders).

Cash gift (anyone) - measured relative to status, too low reduces relationship, too high excites suspicion leaving relationship unchanged, appropriate value increases relationship.

Praise (anyone) - random relationship impact from negative (interpreted as sarcastic or manipulative) to positive (ego stroked).

Influence gift (ai Lords of same faction only) - relationship always improved

Haggle (trader) - random temporary (3 day) % increase or decrease in prices modified by normal trade skills.

Gamble (anyone) - stakes limited dependant upon status/wealth of the other party - 50:50 chance of winning or losing.

Flirt (anyone) - 50:50 chance of increasing or reducing relationship (with women for male players only (or visa versa) a 1% chance of obtaining an illegitimate son/daughter).

Joke (anyone) - 35% chance of increasing relationship, 15% chance of seriously damaging it and 50% chance of a neutral reaction.