Need More Info Not enough equipment for sale

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Huckleberry

Regular
Something happened in 1.5.3-1.5.4 because there are tons of equipment missing (in particular armor, not sure about weapons) that are actually in the game. It doesn't matter if level 5 or 35, the offers on the market are almost the same, even in all cities of the same kingdom. All that the markets have to offer is medium-level armor with characteristics of 30-35 (cost no more than 25,000). No high level armor. I must say this is very monotonous and boring.

How to Reproduce: Go to trade and see

Typical market offer:

Examples of what's never out of stock

Well, you can also see on the screenshots how the equipment icons are confused. This is still not fixed from the early days of the game.
 
Maybe I can give an answer on that.
1. For those "high quality" armour/range weapons, you need to have a smith/carpenter in the town.
2. The town must have the money to buy the armor of the smith/carpenter
3. There is only a small % chance that smith produce "high quality" armour/ range weapons.
4. Atm you can´t get the Prosperty of a Town high enough, so that the Town has enough gold to buy those things(they are incredible expensive).

So yes, the bug still exists.
 
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Because

Sergeant
Never seen high level armour for sale after the 1st couple of months and not seen a high level bow appear for months either even with a tier 6 clan and a high level character so definitely still an issue. They are just too expensive to exist in the game world outside of cheats or mods.
 

MArdA TaleWorlds

Community Support & Localization
Community Support
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Forwarded to the QA team for further investigation. We will reach out again if we need more information. Thanks for reporting and sorry for any inconvenience!
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
@Huckleberry
We are trying to figure out whether this is a new change or something that already existed in the game.
I am just asking for confirmation.
  1. In the second and third screenshot, you show one from the cheat screen. Was this intentional to show us the items which are not available?
  2. Also, does this problem started to appear when you updated from 1.5.2 to 1.5.3?
@Because
You mention not seeing high tier armors after 1 month, do you mean 1 month after the early access?
We'd be glad if you can help pinpoint this problem.
 
@Huckleberry
We are trying to figure out whether this is a new change or something that already existed in the game.
I am just asking for confirmation.
  1. In the second and third screenshot, you show one from the cheat screen. Was this intentional to show us the items which are not available?
  2. Also, does this problem started to appear when you updated from 1.5.2 to 1.5.3?
@Because
You mention not seeing high tier armors after 1 month, do you mean 1 month after the early access?
We'd be glad if you can help pinpoint this problem.
This Problem occured arround 1.4 and is still there

There are many threads, but foremost i will give this threads as a hint:


and also



Hope that will help @SadShogun


Edit: And here the programmed code for the gold a Town has:
public override int GetTownGoldChange(Town town)
{
float num = town.Prosperity * 7f - (float)town.Gold;
return MathF.Round(0.2f * num);
}

If you are good you can reach 14k Prosperity(max), but the gold of the town wouldn´t be enough to buy the battanian noble armor of the smith, so the armour won´t appear.
 
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SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
This Problem occured arround 1.4 and is still there

There are many threads, but foremost i will give this threads as a hint:


and also



Hope that will help @SadShogun


Edit: And here the programmed code for the gold a Town has:
public override int GetTownGoldChange(Town town)
{
float num = town.Prosperity * 7f - (float)town.Gold;
return MathF.Round(0.2f * num);
}

If you are good you can reach 14k Prosperity(max), but the gold of the town wouldn´t be enough to buy the battanian noble armor of the smith, so the armour won´t appear.

Thank you! We're aware of this problem, I just wanted to make sure it is not something we introduced in the 1.5.3.
I can assure that we're working on a solution for this one.
 

ceskymistr

Recruit
So far, I saw very expensive high quality armor only in a few cities which was very rich (that is almost imposible, raiding and starving can very quickly destroy it). Only in Batania, Aserai and a few imperial ciites, I saw them, but even these items never were not the best (price over 35000 is very rare, the rarest was over 70000, and one time I found helmet with price cca 106000). I never founded better, even if the town had prosperity over 8500.

So far the next problem is, that I have never seen rich city in Sturgia and especialy Khuzanit, Vlandia have sometimes richcity, but only for a short time, or cant prosper more.
 

Zorion_no

Regular
I sort of would like to see what some mods have and or like you had in "with fire and sword"..

Where you could go to either an armory or a custom smith that would craft the desired item(would take some time + alot of gold).
Requirement for armory - being in that faction either as a merc or vassal.
Smith anyone with big enough wallets.

I've seen a few times in Battania - Manurath typically - Noble armor(chestpiece aswell)(70k++)
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
Currently the city produces only items with prices equal or less than city's gold as @Medivhtratos mentioned. The gold of a city always tries to become
Gold = 7 x Prosperity
Note that this changes by trade penalty and supply demand.
However, some crafted items are priced very high 50K+ (which is intended as a goal for the end game) and these can only be created with cities with very high prosperity.
There is a reason behind this, if these items would spawn there would be chance which the cities would buy these (for their own consumption) and bankrupt themselves. We will try to create well defined exceptions for these cases and change the consumption behavior to ignore some of the high priced items while consuming. So the items can spawn nevertheless, and decayed by the recycling system(same one which decays the high priced player-crafted-items) to keep it dynamic.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
Currently the city produces only items with prices equal or less than city's gold as @Medivhtratos mentioned. The gold of a city always tries to become Note that this changes by trade penalty and supply demand.
However, some crafted items are priced very high 50K+ (which is intended as a goal for the end game) and these can only be created with cities with very high prosperity.
There is a reason behind this, if these items would spawn there would be chance which the cities would buy these (for their own consumption) and bankrupt themselves. We will try to create well defined exceptions for these cases and change the consumption behavior to ignore some of the high priced items while consuming. So the items can spawn nevertheless, and decayed by the recycling system(same one which decays the high priced player-crafted-items) to keep it dynamic.

Thanks for the info. On the other hand, I think that high level equipment being super expensive like a goal for the end game is not a good thing. It makes the game feel pretty non-immersive because you always find yourself paying wages for troops with the best equipment while you cannot even find a decent medium armor. In Warband we have the best possible armor available since day 1 and these armors have a reasonable price, and it does not make the game feel easy or lacking goals for end game.

Please reconsider this and decrease the cost for these armors to 100k as much. Thanks.

EDIT: plus keep in mind that this is also pretty bad for fighters companions. These companions will be always behind T7 and even behind T5 units because it is simply a nosense having expend about 700-800K to match a Legionary or Heavy Axemen equipment (this in case we would be able to find these armors). The decision about keeping the equipment super expensive does not bring anything good for the game. Please, please, please, reconsider this decision.
 
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D0c1

Knight at Arms
Thanks for the info. On the other hand, I think that high level equipment being super expensive like a goal for the end game is not a good thing. It makes the game feel pretty non-immersive because you always find yourself paying wages for troops with the best equipment while you cannot even find a decent medium armor. In Warband we have the best possible armor available since day 1 and these armors have a reasonable price, and it does not make the game feel easy or lacking goals for end game.

Please reconsider this and decrease the cost for these armors to 100k as much. Thanks.

EDIT: plus keep in mind that this is also pretty bad for fighters companions. These companions will be always behind T7 and even behind T5 units because it is simply a nosense having expend about 700-800K to match a Legionary or Heavy Axemen equipment (this in case we would be able to find these armors). The decision about keeping the equipment super expensive does not bring anything good for the game. Please, please, please, reconsider this decision.
maybe they can add another tier for armour and make it the one super expensive?

or they can give t5-7 units less expensive armour?

i think that lordly armour should be lordly. i don't mind if it were only ~6 poins higher than the highest unit and super expensive but only lords should wear it. it will distinguish them on the battlefield as a bonus.
 

Because

Sergeant
Thanks for the info. On the other hand, I think that high level equipment being super expensive like a goal for the end game is not a good thing. It makes the game feel pretty non-immersive because you always find yourself paying wages for troops with the best equipment while you cannot even find a decent medium armor. In Warband we have the best possible armor available since day 1 and these armors have a reasonable price, and it does not make the game feel easy or lacking goals for end game.

Please reconsider this and decrease the cost for these armors to 100k as much. Thanks.

EDIT: plus keep in mind that this is also pretty bad for fighters companions. These companions will be always behind T7 and even behind T5 units because it is simply a nosense having expend about 700-800K to match a Legionary or Heavy Axemen equipment (this in case we would be able to find these armors). The decision about keeping the equipment super expensive does not bring anything good for the game. Please, please, please, reconsider this decision.
I would whole heartedly second all of the above, at the point you could recruit an army of people wearing top tier armour for less than it costs to buy one suit of it to actually wear in game, it just breaks all realism. By the same logic you could fight an elite force wearing just expensive gear and still have no chance of getting a single intact piece of armour from them as it would break the economy. I imagine if it bugs the likes of us who have played it for ages (and if we are honest can mod around it) imagine how it will be for new less committed users to find out the game will not let them have the same top quality gear their soldiers and opponents have even if they have the absurd eyewatering amount of money to actually afford it.
If the idea is to have the the player work their way towards top grade armour it doesn't really work as the investment if too high that you are not going to drop 200,000 on an ok set as it would set you back even longer from getting an actual top tier armour at 480000.

I've mentioned before that if you want to have high end target equipment, then you should use something like the old Lordly grade gear (say something that gave +5 to all relevant stats for 10 x the normal cost).

Please, please reconsider this cost, I'll mod this and fix it for my game and carry on playing as it feels game breaking to me. I imagine for example the average new player especially on consoles where it is harder to mod will take this less well.
 

Because

Sergeant
@Because
You mention not seeing high tier armors after 1 month, do you mean 1 month after the early access?
We'd be glad if you can help pinpoint this problem.
Hi Sorry for missing your response I meant one month from the time of writing essentially the costs went up on armour and weapons when I started my 1.54 run and got if anything worse on my 1.55, I have see top tier horse armour for sale in the empire, but in several years of play in game not once seen a top tier bow or helmet let alone armour(outside of mods/cheat menu).
 

ceskymistr

Recruit
OK, now I understand, why I never found best armours. After battle I found recently ,,Cracked Lamelar with scale skirt" (incredible luck to found it) = -7 armor at legs, arms and body than standart. But even cracked armor was better than my previous and price for sell was over 91k coins, in invetrory real price over 210k coins for broken armor. WTF?

Looks to me, that only the best armors can be only founded in towns with prosperity over 20k - which is imposible even if Governor has the best perks to decrease food consumption and if town would not have any garisoned units ...

So helmet which has armor cca 45+ have price over 100k (I founded 2 - one Aserai and second Imperial), So the best with armor over 50 I think that price will be 160-200k - price for Batanian and Vlandian helmets with armor 40-42 was 40-60k coins.

By the way, all shields can be founded (the mos expensive have a price below 60k), same with close combat weapons except a few 2H-sword. Bows better than Stepe war bow I never founded (Noble bows and bow of BattaniaFian Champion), maybethereis better crossbows than Hickory Crosbow - I never saw better.
All what I saw in 1400 game days ...
 
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On the other hand, I think that high level equipment being super expensive like a goal for the end game is not a good thing.
I sure ****ing hope not because
A: It's not helpful enough in current damage calculations to be any kind of big reward or advantage
B: A player can just harvest spouses for more and more armor and completely ignore the economic mechanics that cause gear to appear.

In short I think the price range should be more like warband's where good armor cost a decent amount but then even better 'lordly' cost much more, but is more for late game when you have piles of cash. Of course these armors have to be available for it to matter though. Just put them in the stores. I feel like most of the economics in BL really jumped the shark and are too complicated for what the game needs and seem to be taking way to long to sort out.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
I sure ****ing hope not because
A: It's not helpful enough in current damage calculations to be any kind of big reward or advantage
B: A player can just harvest spouses for more and more armor and completely ignore the economic mechanics that cause gear to appear.

In short I think the price range should be more like warband's where good armor cost a decent amount but then even better 'lordly' cost much more, but is more for late game when you have piles of cash. Of course these armors have to be available for it to matter though. Just put them in the stores. I feel like most of the economics in BL really jumped the shark and are too complicated for what the game needs and seem to be taking way to long to sort out.

Yes, I also prefer Warband prices, and availability since the beginning, but it looks like some people like lordy armor at an unrealistic high cost for some reason. I think that the most expensive armor should cost 50K or so but 100K is much more reasonable than 500K.

And yes, it is funny how devs want high tier armor to be a goal for end game, when everyone is actually getting the best possible armor the first couple of days from spouses.
 
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