North or South?

[William S. Donovan]

Exactly, I know you don't mean anything bad haha, but they way you said it, was like it was the Union's solution to let 600,000 people die, and then win the conflict. blaming the union for every single casualty in the Civil War.

 

[Gladiator12]

Problems that plague the nation must have national solutions. We are not a collection of bickering family members; but one, strong, country.

600,000 dead is a pretty extreme 'solution'!

The Union and Ireland! Long live the Irish Brigade!

"What are those boys doing fighting in blue? Don't they know we're fighting for our independence? Did they learn nothing at the hands of the English?"

隐藏

 

[5arge]

Just for a point of reference, we killed/lost about 3% of our population during the American Civil War. During the English Civil War(s) the casualties were comparable based on the population, about 3.5% lost to war/disease. That is the nature of a civil war, one country takes all the casualties on both sides.

 

[KArantukki]

In the Thirty Years' War (wich was fought mainly in germany)  25% to 40% of the german population died

back to topic:
I support the union, but the CSA was also a cool nation.

 

[BlackOne]

In the Thirty Years' War (wich was fought mainly in germany)  25% to 40% of the german population died

Yet I've never even heard of it. Sad... 

 

[KArantukki]

One of the most horrible wars in history.​

 

[Saint_Kyle]

Long live the Union. The only reason we had a civil war is because we got tired of beating on England. 

 

[BlackOne]

Long live the Union. The only reason we had a civil war is because we got tired of beating on England. 

Tired before or after we burned the White House? 

 

[5arge]

Long live the Union. The only reason we had a civil war is because we got tired of beating on England. 

Tired before or after we burned the White House? 

I'm sure Lance had good intentions when he started this thread, but there was only ever one direction for this discussion to go... down. Mature exchange of ideas? Not on the internet! 

 

[Deofuta]

Long live the Union. The only reason we had a civil war is because we got tired of beating on England. 

Tired before or after we burned the White House? 

I'm sure Lance had good intentions when he started this thread, but there was only ever one direction for this discussion to go... down. Mature exchange of ideas? Not on the internet! 

I refuse to give up, damn it!

 

[J D]

And yeah, I'm treating it as a serious conversation. It's a pretty divisive topic and I'd like to see arguments on both sides about why they support one or the other.

I'll go.  I support the Confederacy.  If I was alive at the time period, I would have fought (and probably died) for it.  (I'll go ahead and state here that I in no way support Slavery, the war was not about slavery (we can have that discussion at a later point if someone wants), and slavery is an abomination)

The first reason is because unlike a lot of Northerners (and many Southerners today) my loyalty is first to my family, and secondly to my state.  I am a Tennessean and as such I would have fought to defend my family and my state. 

Secondly, I support the Confederacy because I support a limited federal government and strong state governments.  I believe that the more local a government it (state vs. nation,  city vs. state) the better it is at representing the citizens it governs.  The move for secession was a move to reign in the powers of a federal government that was overstepping its authority.  A Tennessee state government better represents Tennesseans than a government with legislators from California, Texas, New York, ect.  And while the Confederacy in the waning years started temporarily removing many rights of the states, it didn't start that way.

Thirdly, I would not support a government ran by a tyrant, and Abraham Lincoln was one of the largest tyrants this country has ever seen.  He suspended Habeas Corpus across the North (the north mind you, not the seceded south) and arrested thousands of prisoners without charge.  He deported a legally elected northern congressman because he opposed and spoke against Lincoln (Congressman Clement Vallandigham of Ohio).  He blockaded the south before a declaration of war, he launched an invasion of the south without congress' consent.  He censored telegraph communications without warrants.  He issued an arrest warrant for the Chief Justice of the Supreme court when Chief Justice Taney ruled against Lincoln in Ex parte Merryman (the cast against Lincoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus).  He then ignored the court ruling even though it held his actions unconstitutional.

 

[5arge]

And off we go... 

 

[J D]

And off we go... 

Hey now, I'm all for mature discussion and debate. 

 

[5arge]

And off we go... 

Hey now, I'm all for mature discussion and debate. 

Well, Young Hickory, you and I are good pals, and I know you to be a thoughtful and intelligent Southern gentleman, so it's not you I worry about. It's the 12 year old European kid who has no idea about what you are talking about who is going to weigh in on how cool slavery was that I am concerned with. This whole topic is just a time bomb ticking.

It would be like going to the forums for a WW2 themed game and asking people who they support, the Allies or the Axis powers and why... I'm sure there would be plenty of thoughtful discussion going on, until the pro-Nazi folks started posting their rants about ethnic purity.

Some things just don't need to be open for discussion on a video game forum. Especially sensitive issues from 150 years ago. But hey... who am I to question the forum moderator right?

 

[J D]

And off we go... 

Hey now, I'm all for mature discussion and debate. 

Well, Young Hickory, you and I are good pals, and I know you to be a thoughtful and intelligent Southern gentleman, so it's not you I worry about. It's the 12 year old European kid who has no idea about what you are talking about who is going to weigh in on how cool slavery was that I am concerned with. This whole topic is just a time bomb ticking.

It would be like going to the forums for a WW2 themed game and asking people who they support, the Allies or the Axis powers and why... I'm sure there would be plenty of thoughtful discussion going on, until the pro-Nazi folks started posting their rants about ethnic purity.

Some things just don't need to be open for discussion on a video game forum. Especially sensitive issues from 150 years ago. But hey... who am I to question the forum moderator right?

Ah my apologies.  I hadn't thought about that view of it. I was hoping we could have a good discussion about it, but I fear you're correct that it'll eventually explode.  *sigh* 

 

[Gladiator12]

Long live the Union. The only reason we had a civil war is because we got tired of beating on England. 

Tired before or after we burned the White House? 

Just had to add this...

隐藏

[antiflameshield][/antiflameshield]

 

[Robspierre]

"What are those boys doing fighting in blue? Don't they know we're fighting for our independence? Did they learn nothing at the hands of the English?"

+1

 

[VinceWinters]

Agh, forget both of em!

The Californian Republic shall rise, and an army shall be raised! 

No, the New California Republic shall rise! Two heads are better than one!

Oh but JD, that was a good post. There were some very good points in there. But I agree with 5arge. We can't have intelligent conversations on the internet unfortunately.

 

[Vicnaire]

The only true confederation was the Confederation of New England ​

It was real :p it was just long before the Civil War. It was in the 1600's I believe.

 

[Murat ÖZCAN]

Problems that plague the nation must have national solutions. We are not a collection of bickering family members; but one, strong, country.

600,000 dead is a pretty extreme 'solution'!

The Union and Ireland! Long live the Irish Brigade!

"What are those boys doing fighting in blue? Don't they know we're fighting for our independence? Did they learn nothing at the hands of the English?"

Good scene,I have wached this. Is there any way to watch "Gods and Generals" online?