Native Completed North American 5-a-Side Tournament - Congrats The Rat Pack - Stats Posted!

[Catholic]

Another vote for 1000G...it's just more challenging. Also, cav is a support class, so it shouldn't be at the front line getting shot anyway. Cav is meant to move in when inf & archers engage and pick off unsuspecting enemies and 1000G will allow just that. A courser and free basic sword is sufficient for this task.

Woo, yeah, someone gets it!

Scott Ray and Angus tanking and taking out the entire enemy team was never actually an intended functionality of cavalry, I don't think. Couches and experienced bump work are still essential with 1000g, and still have got to be watched out for. Cav are still used even on maps like Nord Town, where according to 1500-lover logic they should be far too vulnerable to apparently OP archers to have any use at all.

Anything above 1200 gold is rubbish because it leads to exactly the same play style as you had in 1500. There is absolutely zero point in such an alternative gold setting.  I've never played with 1000-1200, so I can't comment on that.

Since teams are forced to use 2 infantry, 2 archers, and 1 cavalry, 1500 gold wouldn't really matter as much, so I am going to vote for 1500

!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?

 

[BlackTide]

Coursers don't last long in competitive play. People riding coursers don't last long on competitive play.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

Coursers don't last long in competitive play. People riding coursers don't last long on competitive play.

Tell that to BKS. 

 

[BlackTide]

They've always had armour and lances to compensate.

 

[Mr.X]

Coursers don't last long in competitive play. People riding coursers don't last long on competitive play.

That ideology is 2 years old

 

[Juve]

I've always found it takes a certain finesse to play courser competitively. Not many can pull it off, but it certainly has its place.

 

[Marin Peace Bringer]

Actually, I kind of like the idea of having the gold be part of the weekly fixture. 

 

[RoBo_CoP]

The **** in here is getting deep.

 

[MAFI0S0]

Team Name: Kneel Before the Boar God

Tag: Wappaw

Banner: Three Boar

Captain: Greenknight

Co-Captain: Mafioso

Roster:
1) Greenknight
2) Mafioso
3) Blade
4) THOR
5) Aidan
6) Hot Carl
7) Redknight
8 ) Black
9) Jesus
10) Cheese

 

[Juve]

Black

Heh, of course Black would be the cool one. Thanks for the registration.

Added.

 

[Gelden]

Completely disagree, 1000 gold cav is perfectly fine.

Gud argument.

Also, cav is a support class, so it shouldn't be at the front line getting shot anyway. Cav is meant to move in when inf & archers engage and pick off unsuspecting enemies and 1000G will allow just that. A courser and free basic sword is sufficient for this task.

If this is the case, then I'd argue that this is actually counter productive to innovation. If I'm limited to only this type of play style with 1000 gold because I want to protect my horse or I feel I can't make a hit because I don't have a lance then you're actually taking away styles of play, and ultimately making the class inferior.

As an example, a tactic used for stopping/delaying a horde of xbow/inf from reaching a specific place on a map is sending in your cav to exert presence, make them turn, and slow them (this is effectively without making actual hits).  Why would teams even risk sending in coursers or desert horses, or if I bought a hunter, a body shot could black bar me easily.

The point is, you have a very narrow vision of what cav can be used for, and you actually make an argument against 1000 gold.

Coursers don't last long in competitive play. People riding coursers don't last long on competitive play.

This!  An xbow to the face of your courser is pretty much an insta-kill.  If you decide to buy a hunter, a shot to the body is detrimental.  Either way I've lost interest in playing cav in 1000 gold tournaments.

 

[Mr.X]

I'm sorry but I took part in several bit matches that were played at 1k gold where cav was instrumental and effectively used. Go watch ANY stream from a eu tournament with 1k gold snd say that they couldn't use the cav cause they were missing 500 gold at the start.

With 1500 gold a vaegir cav can get a hunter and the leathery type armor with default lance, shield, and sword (exactly 1500). At 1k you have to drop to 2nd tier armor instead of third, but you have money left over for a helmet (maybe up to 3rd tier not sure). Does that seriously alter that cav's role and ability? Nope. Does that mean he has to be careful he doesn't get shot? Yes. But with 1k gold a rhodock of any class has to be careful not to get shot. Same with swad and sarranid. So it's really not the insurmountable obstacle you're making it out to be Gelden.

"xbow to the face of a courser is insta-kill"
So is an xbow to the face of an infantry or archer player. Keep your horse out of situations where it's going to die.

I don't understand why you think both the character AND the horse should be able to easily tank shots from an xbow. Explain that please.

 

[RoBo_CoP]

This!  An xbow to the face of your courser is pretty much an insta-kill.  If you decide to buy a hunter, a shot to the body is detrimental.  Either way I've lost interest in playing cav in 1000 gold tournaments.

Mad Dawg brought up BkS. While it's not the best arguement in the world, it's still a very valid point to make. They still performed top notch and chose to use the courser and still maintained a presence. Hell if you want to see cav performing well with 1kg, watch a Scott Ray in the streamed US matches, or watch AE in theirs.

Cavalry is still just as effective in bump and skirmishing scenerios. The only 'tactic' that is hindered by 1kg is mass cav (>50% of team) or an early push into a ball using only cav. Cavalry patrolling an area correctly can still maintain pressure and deter small groups from taking an area regardless of their equipment. If on either setting you are getting hit by ranged fire, it is your fault for putting yourself in the situation of being shot at.

I don't have a lance then you're actually taking away styles of play, and ultimately making the class inferior.

Cavalry was never inferior on 1kg, and every faction except nords have a free lance to couch with, and Nords make up for this with higher riding skills and free javs. They make excellent skirmishers and bump cav. It's like this on both gold settings, yet I feel is much more balanced on 1kg. To say that cavalry is narrowed in what they're capable of doing is a false notion, that is unless the tactics you happen to rely on is using a heavy horse and charging into an enemy position.



Ninja'd.

 

[Lagstro]

1k is balanced
1,5k is ****, because it makes some factions gain access to heavy armor or heavy horses right from the start while some factions can't.
1,25k is ****, same reason as 1,5k. + looks retarded
1,2k is ****, same reason as 1,5k and 1,25k. + looks retarded

Come into TS and tell me this in person please, I want to hear you say it! Use THE FORMAT!!!

 

[RoBo_CoP]

Come into TS and tell me this in person please,

隐藏

You took Sota seriously? 

 

[Juve]

Since I've already made a ruling on gold and explained why, I'd appreciate it if further 1000g/1500g/1200g discussions were carried out here.

It's not that I don't want the discussion to be had, it's more that I intended this tournament to be more of a short bridge between BIT and whatever major battle tournament follows. I've made a decision about the starting gold based on my conversations with dozens of members of the community, as well as a survey I carried out. It would be nice if this thread could be kept argument-free.

 

[Gelden]

I'm sorry but I took part in several bit matches that were played at 1k gold where cav was instrumental and effectively used. Go watch ANY stream from a eu tournament with 1k gold snd say that they couldn't use the cav cause they were missing 500 gold at the start.

Just so we're on the same page, nowhere did I say they can't be effective.  They are not as effective when compared to 1500.  You've played in several matches as you have said, and I hold your opinion highly. I played in all wKs BIT matches, and all NC matches in the past two years at 1000 gold.  Then for comparison I've played in all NA tournys since KBOOB at 1500.  All as playing cavalry.  I'm not talking out of my ass - I feel there in a definite gimp for cavalry at 1000 gold.

With 1500 gold a vaegir cav can get a hunter and the leathery type armor with default lance, shield, and sword (exactly 1500). At 1k you have to drop to 2nd tier armor instead of third, but you have money left over for a helmet (maybe up to 3rd tier not sure).

Wrong.  With a hunter at 1000 gold and 2nd tier armor, you're going bare head.

Does that seriously alter that cav's role and ability? Nope. Does that mean he has to be careful he doesn't get shot? Yes. But with 1k gold a rhodock of any class has to be careful not to get shot. Same with swad and sarranid. So it's really not the insurmountable obstacle you're making it out to be Gelden.

It does alter the cavs role and ability, as I've mentioned, and listed examples of.  I'm not trying to make it out to be anything insurmountable; it's an issue with 1000 gold that needs to be brought to the table.

"xbow to the face of a courser is insta-kill"
So is an xbow to the face of an infantry or archer player. Keep your horse out of situations where it's going to die.

I don't understand why you think both the character AND the horse should be able to easily tank shots from an xbow. Explain that please.

We both know how much easier it is to hit a horse as opposed to a player, X.  The horse or player should not be able to tank shots from an xbow, but a reasonable loadout for an an archer or infantry player puts their body armor at over 20 with 1000g, with cavs starting armor is +7 with nords, and under +20 with most factions including vaegirs.

I'm also not advocating 1500 to be clear.  Out of respect to Juve I'd happily continue this in the thread he mentioned.

 

[Shemaforash]

I'd just like to respond before pushing you over to the other thread.

I've played 1000 gold my whole warband career and I've never felt gimped, rather, having too much money at 1500 gold. Too much money for cavalry's own good and its own balance. It simply makes it too powerful.

 

[Lagstro]

Come into TS and tell me this in person please,

隐藏

You took Sota seriously? 

Quite the contrary, this is an inside joke between Sota and I, you nosy robot. There's a reason he talked about the gold amounts I posted.

Edit:

Also... since there are different views on how certain gold amounts affect each class, why not randomize the gold just like maps and factions are randomized. Perhaps 1000g, 1200g, 1500g, 1800g, 2000g jumps between them. Why master only one gold amount? Make the situations harder for every class throughout the tournament. 1000g seems to favor archers a little more than anything else... 1200 seems to be a great balance between archers and inf, 1500 favors inf, 1800 is a balance between inf and cav, and 2000g favors cav.

Believe it or not... archers actually get weaker as the gold amount raises, they may be able upgrade quickly... but they run out of things to buy VERY fast, unlike inf and cav. Cav can continue up to 12000g while archers don't even make it to 3000g after maxing out.

Also feel free to come at me with your assumptions on archery because here's the thing... I don't care what you assume, I most likely have more first-hand experience in it than you do.

ALSO!!! If you are one of those people who ***** around and say things like "Oh yea... give Red knight a heavy horse on the first round yadiyadadudi"... why do you even join this tournament? If one person on the opposing team is the only reason your team loses... YOU JUST FACKING SUCK... you don't even deserve the chance to even be called the champion of a tournament if your whole team can't even take care of one guy with a fat horse. Put a little teamwork into it and you will do 100x better.

Edit #2:

Since I've already made a ruling on gold and explained why, I'd appreciate it if further 1000g/1500g/1200g discussions were carried out here.

It's not that I don't want the discussion to be had, it's more that I intended this tournament to be more of a short bridge between BIT and whatever major battle tournament follows. I've made a decision about the starting gold based on my conversations with dozens of members of the community, as well as a survey I carried out. It would be nice if this thread could be kept argument-free.

I will compromise and scratch my text.

 

[RoBo_CoP]

I nearly fell for that.

/conversation



Team Robot coming soon*