Normal difficulty is impossible

[Garlan]

Really.

I've been playing this game for a few months now, and I love it, but it was in the 1/4 damage taken difficulty. I wanted a challenge, so I created a new character and changed the difficulty to normal.

Now, everytime I go to sleep I have nightmares with Forest Bandits in them. Arrows take half my hp each, and my horse dies in a few shots. My soldiers last seconds on the battlefield until they get pwned.
There's nothing I can do.

I'm afraid to leave the safety of Veluca, Forest Bandits could be anywhere, at any time.

I need some tips about how to survive in this nightmare they call "NORMAL" difficulty.

P.s : English isn't my first language so go easy on me.

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

I call normal difficulty "realistic". There is no justification whatsoever how a normal human being can take fifteen arrows to the knee body wearing but a leather jerkin and still up for a fight. You and your men are just as normal as the rest of the folks, not supermen just because they belong to the player.

In normal difficulties, you are not supposed to be charging head-on against anything, even if you are wearing the best armor. The same goes for your troops, horses, companions... anything.

A few tips:

- The melee arena and training grounds are there for a reason. Master your moves in the first will net you around 500 while you gain much-needed initial level and proficiencies. Training grounds will quickly boost your men to the third tier, which is where Swadians, Vaegirs and Sarranids start getting their ranged unit for anti-bandit duties.

- Initially invest heavily in archers. They get the job done sometimes before the enemy reaches your line. Fifteen crossbowmen or archers will make short work of forest bandits in no time. Ten crossbowmen and five decent infantry does the same thing to mountain bandits, if not less. Pick up a crossbow or bow yourself to join in the fun.

- Only charge your enemies when they are distracted. Do not ever run towards that guy shooting at you, go charge his buddy who's busy shooting your men and try to drop him in one hit. Make use of natural covers (Trees, hills, your own men) so that guys shooting you will stop targeting you.

- Repeat after me: You're not a superman. You are not Medieval Rambo. You win by fighting smarter, not harder.

In short, normal difficulty is not at all impossible. It requires, however, quite a bit more thought than just rushing in and dropping everyone while taking close to zero damage.

 

[annallia]

Everything that he said up there is true. Normal difficulty is 100% possible, it just requires you to be more careful. Just take things slow, think out every move you make, don't take any risks and you should be ok.

 

[Jesus YOUR LORD]

The previous posts are on the money.  Avoid being hit.

I find that surrounding myself with as many troops as i can afford helps keep the arrows directed at the masses.  For me I have to start slow and low, I get enough people to weather bandits and looters and start trading to earn money.  Once I can afford a decent number of troops (40+) I join a lord then ask to become a Vassal after doing a few battles with him.  With time if you pick the right faction (ie. not a losing faction)  you can have your own castle and entertain dreams of ruling all of Calradia with an Iron Fist!

As far as those pesky bandits are concerned.  Train up Cavalry and you'll wipe them out in seconds.  Let your troops do the dying.

 

[tzlop]

Everytime Argeus comment on something it feels like he is pulling something off a dictionary.

 

[Garlan]

The melee arena does anything? I knew about the training in the, well, training grounds, but it gets boring fast, having to beat the crap out of 4 recruits every time.

Also, being the only horseman in your mercenary company ain't fun either. You have to wait for your recruits/militia/footmen/spearmen to walk up to the enemy while they take the arrows for you if you don't want to die.

I'll try training up archers tho, I don't usually train them until the late game, when I can spam them.

Also, are the mercenaries in the taverns worth their prices? I might take a few Watchmen to watch my back, but the Caravan Guards are pretty expensive to maintain I see.

Thanks for everyones answers.

 

[argyre]

I've been playing on normal difficulty since I started because I was afraid of getting too used to having my character be more invincible than everyone else. It felt brutal back then, too.

Tips... you will never truly be a one man army when your character is taking full damage from every hit, so don't even try to be. Even at level 40 with the best armour you can buy, a heavy throwing axe to the face can kill you. You can get cocky again later when you're more used to the increased lethality, but at the beginning, you must avoid getting into situations where it's you alone versus multiple enemies. Don't charge an enemy that's standing there with his weapon raised waiting to hit you with it, because that's probably what will happen, and if you're moving towards them at high speed on a horse, you'll probably die because of it. Don't charge an archer formation head on. Don't even charge anywhere near an archer formation's direction. They'll put half a dozen arrows into your horse's head and kill it.

Use your troops to distract your enemy and circle around the melee picking people off.  The more reach your weapon has, the better. I recommend a shield/lance combination, but don't bother trying to couch, it doesn't work well in Warband. Get a good solid horse as well. Train your men up - hire Lezalit, use the training field if you have to. Your aim is to build a company of heavy troops (I prefer a full company of heavy cavalry) that can wade into a big melee with a massed enemy and distract them away from you, so that you can go about your business killing all the large targets that pose a threat to your men, and then picking off the rest at your leisure. Or, circle around the enemy and use yourself as a decoy while your men charge in and engage them. Or do the latter, then the former. Just avoid taking hits. Once you have a good, strong company of armoured troops and your character has passable equipment, you'll be set. Grab Jeramus too, you will definitely want a hero with strong medical skills.

Don't worry, even on 'normal' difficulty you'll soon get to a point where bandits are a joke and you can freely engage companies three times the size of your own with few or no losses. You just have to reaccustom yourself to it and not treat your main character like he's made of lead. He can still be a death machine that rides through a battle slaying enemies left and right, but he can't stand up to a lot of punishment on his own.

 

[annallia]

The melee arena is worth it in the beginning. As was already said it will boost your proficiencies, maybe get you a few levels, and best of all (in my opinion) earn you a few extra coins. Granted however it has a similar problem to yours with the training field in that it gets boring very quickly since you are basically fighting the same fight over and over and onver.

Yes the merc cav is expensive, but they are in my opinion worth every penny as they can pack a hell of a wallop, just be careful not to overdo it and hire like 3 dozen of them. Another option is to hire them then chase down bandit parties that have manhunters held prisoner, when you finish the slaughter take the manhunters into your party. They are cheaper than merc cav, free recuit since its rescued prisoners, and they will get you valuable prisoners. Only downside is they are a little more fragile than the merc cav.

As for being the solo cavalier in your group I suggest companion cavalry. They don't cost anymore upkeep than they would without the horse and even a cheap little saddle horse makes them slightly more useful in the field, just remember to get them some decent armor from the loot.

 

[argyre]

I like using mercenary-only companies, and mercenary cavalry are fairly good, but they are inordinately expensive and cash is at a premium very early on in the game. You could also grab some Swadian recruits and use sparring practice to train them into men-at-arms.

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

Everytime Argeus comment on something it feels like he is pulling something off a dictionary.

Not sure whether I should take this as a compliment or a criticism, but okay.

As to the "get more cav" comment: In my experience, this is rather counterproductive in the earlier stages. The only early cavalry you can get your hands on that are worth the effort are Mercenary Cavalry, which cost an arm and a leg to hire and another arm and leg to maintain. Not to mention, they are a hell of a kill-stealer. When you factoring in the fact that loot after a battle is somewhat (not tested, though I have a very strong feeling that it does have an impact) affected by how many guys you the player drop personally, this could mean that unless you invest a lot on Looting you'll be bringing back nothing more than scraps. Even if that isn't true, at that stage you want those experience.

I've always played my games massing archers. Much cheaper, much safer and there is something inherently awesome about seeing green text scrolling after every volley. Though that could be personal preference.

 

[argyre]

As to the "get more cav" comment: In my experience, this is rather counterproductive in the earlier stages. The only early cavalry you can get your hands on that are worth the effort are Mercenary Cavalry, which cost an arm and a leg to hire and another arm and leg to maintain. Not to mention, they are a hell of a kill-stealer. When you factoring in the fact that loot after a battle is somewhat (not tested, though I have a very strong feeling that it does have an impact) affected by how many guys you the player drop personally, this could mean that unless you invest a lot on Looting you'll be bringing back nothing more than scraps. Even if that isn't true, at that stage you want those experience.

I'm fairly sure the loot frequency is just a combination of how many men you fought and your battle advantage, as I can sit at my flag letting my men cut through 200 guys without lifting a finger and still get a huge pile of loot out of it.

As for kill-stealing, well... you need your men to be killing. If they aren't killing they'll soon be dying, and then you'll follow.

Don't tournaments give a good chunk of experience? If you're any good at it, running the tournament circuit in the early game is a solid idea.

 

[annallia]

Everytime Argeus comment on something it feels like he is pulling something off a dictionary.

Not sure whether I should take this as a compliment or a criticism, but okay.

As to the "get more cav" comment: In my experience, this is rather counterproductive in the earlier stages. The only early cavalry you can get your hands on that are worth the effort are Mercenary Cavalry, which cost an arm and a leg to hire and another arm and leg to maintain. Not to mention, they are a hell of a kill-stealer. When you factoring in the fact that loot after a battle is somewhat (not tested, though I have a very strong feeling that it does have an impact) affected by how many guys you the player drop personally, this could mean that unless you invest a lot on Looting you'll be bringing back nothing more than scraps. Even if that isn't true, at that stage you want those experience.

I've always played my games massing archers. Much cheaper, much safer and there is something inherently awesome about seeing green text scrolling after every volley. Though that could be personal preference.

I agree with you on the downsides of merc cav, but if you limit it, say 4-6 (or however many you end up hiring off the first one you meet) you can use them to make things a hell of a lot easier on you when going after manhunters.

In the end I very rarely don't make the initial investment back within a week just by the prisoners that I get from the manhunters. I just wish I could recruit them out of the box rather than futz around chasing down small bands of sea raiders or other bandits to get them.

Archers I agree are extremely useful and some sick satisfaction is to be had by watching them drop from the volleys but I find them less useful in engagements with sea raiders and mountain bandits, really anyone with a lot of shield bearers. Not sure how they fair against desert/steppe bandits and I tend to stay away from them until late game and even then only if I have to...But forest bandits, tundra bandits (depending on mix) looters, rioter mobs, and the like they do great against.

 

[sandoval]

Get a shield. Use the shield.
I recommend Khergits as a good Cavalry for the early game. They may die like flies, but are cheap, easy to replace and make the party travelling fast.

 

[Cornelius Constantine]

Try Brytenwalda. You'll have nightmares about Danes and Franks, and then those Forest Bandits will be like a wet dream... 

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

Bah. Them Franks and Danes have nothing on PoP's Snake Cult or Jatu parties. The pinnacle of player-raepage M&B has to offer, no doubt. 

 

[zwierzor]

Garlan! Garlan! I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening?
Horses.
Dont use ponies. Use stallions. 4 riding + heavy horse for you and all your companions.
Fetch yourselves some proper armour and weaponry. Forest bandits are easiest unit to kill in the game, aside from looters that is (but those are not even considered units)

Bah. Them Franks and Danes have nothing on PoP's Snake Cult or Jatu parties. The pinnacle of player-raepage M&B has to offer, no doubt. 

It was cold, wet morning when we arrived to Larian fields. We were supposed to intercept some noldor patrol. Thirty men we had, hardened men and women, all mounted and ready to fight. We were fighting all possible scum of Pendor: Jatu, cultists, even rogue knights. We tought we were ready for everything. Then we saw pointy ears. 20 men strong group, mostly bowmen only four of them mounted. This looked perfect. The fog was so thick that we barely could see ourselves. Not even a challenge, said one of my finest men, knight named Sir Roland, who was able to fend off three enemy knights at once other day. I set my men to stand in line, and ordered charge to commence. The sight of  cavalry gaining full speed was alone worth taking this job. The weather did not allow me to do it this time, so instead i found beauty in fast rhytm of hooves and wind. Sir Roland yelled something, and was blasted from his horse. With a single arrow. Before we even saw them, we lost ten men. We heard that noldor were good archers but that was just ridiculous. Those still alive raised a warcry. After all even best archers were nothing but meat when hit by cavalry. Well, not the noldors. They drew swords, and few moments later, it was all over.

Still getting chills when hearing the noldor theme song. Oh, and there's heretic army.

 

[DogSoldieR]

LOLs @ Argeus & Tzlop... you guys .. 
Argeus I think Tzlop has a thing for you. Hes gonna sneak into your castle n read you poems real soon. Maybe even dedicate a tournament to you or something :p

The melee arena does anything? I knew about the training in the, well, training grounds, but it gets boring fast, having to beat the crap out of 4 recruits every time.

Beat the crap out of EVERYONE, not just recruits. Your companions, your mercs, everyone!

Also, being the only horseman in your mercenary company ain't fun either. You have to wait for your recruits/militia/footmen/spearmen to walk up to the enemy while they take the arrows for you if you don't want to die.

You need to learn to use your army components better. You arent much of a general at this moment in tactical thinking judging by your comment above. Learn to use the best of what you have.

1. Have a decent mix of army: melee & ranged.
2. Learn to deploy them better.
3. What has been said: You are not a Rambo. Do not rush headlong into the fight yourself. Hit and run. Do not fight people aiming for you.

I love fighting mountain &  forest bandits! Esp. at the start as a noob.
I'll give you some tips on a noob start concerning those guys.


I'll try training up archers tho, I don't usually train them until the late game, when I can spam them.


If you skip on ranged troops till late game, that is fine too if you know how to handle your army.
If you learn the phases of engagement, it can be done with just melee troops.

Also, are the mercenaries in the taverns worth their prices? I might take a few Watchmen to watch my back, but the Caravan Guards are pretty expensive to maintain I see.

Yes they drain your money real fast. You can use them as a backbone of your army while on a noob start when you are still training up your peasant recruits. But do not rely on them anymore after your peasants know which end of the pointy stick to use. (lols, I meant after your guys level up into something decent.)

Thanks for everyones answers.

Garlan, what faction troops do you recruit at the start? Give me an idea so I can tell you how to do a noob start vs mountain/forest bandits.

 

[DogSoldieR]

Garlan! Garlan! I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening?
Horses.
Dont use ponies. Use stallions. 4 riding + heavy horse for you and all your companions.
Fetch yourselves some proper armour and weaponry. Forest bandits are easiest unit to kill in the game, aside from looters that is (but those are not even considered units)

Thats quite asking somewhat too much from him at this stage in time. 4 riding + heavy horse will take him awhile. Usually comes for me by the time my army is established and able to hold their own against anyone but a king. Likewise with proper armour and weaponry.

Archers I agree are extremely useful and some sick satisfaction is to be had by watching them drop from the volleys but I find them less useful in engagements with sea raiders and mountain bandits, really anyone with a lot of shield bearers. Not sure how they fair against desert/steppe bandits and I tend to stay away from them until late game and even then only if I have to...But forest bandits, tundra bandits (depending on mix) looters, rioter mobs, and the like they do great against.
« Last Edit: Today at 06:24:11 AM by annallia »

I have a few unpleasant experiences with ranged units vs mounted. I was unlucky enough to be caught on the edge of khergit/sarranid territory by their bandits. Wiped out my army of pointy stick wielders n barnyard door shooters. I alone walked away from it all. Bad business. But yes, my army of pointy sticker wavers n barnyard door shooters do fine, can win, vs forest/mountain bandits. And yes, it is painful vs armored sea raider bandits.

 

[argyre]

That's why I raise armoured cavalry at the beginning, because they can hold their own against more or less anyone in a field engagement. But it doesn't matter what you use as long as you find it works. If you're losing a lot of men in engagements with sea raiders or steppe bandits, then you need to try something else.

 

[zwierzor]

Really, DogSoldieR? Most of my characters start with 7-10 agility, most of them already got 3 riding. Raising the agility to 12 and riding to 4 is  much easier and faster to do than, say, establishing an army.

First step in making a strong character should be making a strong character. Heavy horse rises armor and battle mobility. It turns a maggot into ironclad maggot. Aaand! It allows you to use tactics like:
fighting multiple opponents*
ability to skirmish*
Seriously abuse AI disability to adjust tactics*

(* - for more than 5 seconds)