#nobattlenobks

[Killfacer]

It's a good post and I think it's fair to say that it contains most of the thoughts of the competitive scene.

The problem here is that they're completely doubling down on Skirmish. Battle, as is, is an extremely basic game mode. Its incredibly simple, a map for teams of any number to fight on and a MotF flag to force people to fight if they camp. That's the reason it was the competitive game mode. It's simple, you can't throw away your life and managing team economy is important. Removing what is such a basic and suitable game mode for the competitive scene is bad. Not just because we like it but also because, if Skirmish isn't as popular as TW think it will be, many of those players who first try multiplayer will go. They will play skirmish, they will get bored and they won't see another server with a mode called "Battle" and think that sounds fun. Yeah some will play siege a bit and hang around but the chance the competitive scene had to capture many of them will be gone. And that's what fundementally irritates me and others. We've spent years cultivating and maintaining the competitive warband community. Community members such as Scar and Aeronwen have spent countless hours running tournaments and creating competitive content and we've all done a lot to try and maintain the scene. To keep it fresh and to keep it populated.

For many of us battle is what really got us into Warband and not having it in Bannerlord raises a lot of alarm bells. Orion and Rhade explained it well, saying mod it in isn't enough. If we have to make a clientside mod then we stand no chance of getting getting a strong playerbase from the huge amount of people who play the game on release. Having to make a mod creates a barrier that may not kill us but will certainly heavily handicap us. Even having to make a serverside mod would be far from ideal. Not being able pick equipment is a huge shame. Part of what makes warband so fun is the different builds and styles people take. Removing options like this is nothing but damaging.

I hope that battle mode is included or at least something very similar, with the ability to buy equipment as per Warband. Perhaps it won't be needed and skirmish will be amazing but taking such an unnecessary risk isn't in the interests of the competitive scene and in the end isnt in the interests of Taleworlds.The solution is easy, include battle mode. At worst it's just a fun gamemode for people to do battle events on. At best it's an exciting competitive game mode that will be built around by a passionate community for going on a decade after release. More than that, what an easy homerun you can score on community relations.

I can't bring myself to do a hashtag but suffice to say it would be a crying shame were BkS not to play Bannerlord.

 

[Callum]

Most of you saw the PM I sent saying that there will be no Battle mode in the same way as it was in Warband. While this is in part true, it appears to be completely misleading, so please allow me to clarify the situation.

There will be no single-life game mode in matchmaking, but there will be one for custom games (among other game modes, such as Team Deathmatch). The final design for this game mode isn't set in stone yet so you shouldn't expect to see a Battle mode which is identical to the one we have in Warband. Naturally, we will take community input on these matters into account as we strive to create an experience that is enjoyable for our fans. We also have an extensive list of server settings, so you should be able to customise any of our game modes to suit your needs (playercount, gold amounts etc.). If any of the custom modes turn out to be the game mode that clans want to use in tournaments or which our event organisers want to use for events (such as line battles), then we will work to support them with that when the time comes.

The item system from Warband has now been changed to a class-based system, with a perk list to customise your character (such as access to different weapons or better armour). This is the system we will be using across all of our multiplayer game modes. The reasons for this change are: to help with the general balance of the game (between units and teams); to prevent snowballing; to make multiplayer accessible to a wider ranger of players; and to provide a system where players can know what to expect when playing as or against each different type of unit (and develop strategies and tactics based on this). I will also note that there still are a significant range of options across the classes and perks – which may be expanded upon based on community feedback and testing results.

We want to make it clear that our aim is not to alienate our existing playerbase through our efforts to attract new players to the game. We will always listen to your feedback and try to work with you to create a game which you will enjoy playing for years to come. But, with that being said, we also have our own thoughts and ideas that we would like to put out there and we are confident that game modes like Skirmish will be well received if you are willing to give them a chance.

It would be really helpful if you could leave any feedback or thoughts about this over in this thread: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,375184.0.html rather than spread out over the handful of threads which are currently discussing this issue. Thanks!

 

[kalarhan]

The entire argument supposes that Battle isn't necessary

in no moment I said that. I don't care either way. I am, as you can see on my post, simple talking about one of the arguments raised here against mod based MP modes: they have small communities, people have issues find and installing them, which fragments the community and makes the entire process worse: less people for individual modes, which leads to empty servers.

so my counter was related to just that aspect. If what you guys are saying is true, then Warband has a problem/weakness. By working on that aspect, Bannerlord can turn it into a strength, which would allow for all modes (TW made or community made) to live side by side, on the same interface, with a easy one step process to join any server, regardless of the origin. In that situation, this particular argument becomes null. It doesn't impact any other pro or con argument when talking about Battle (or any mode).

Warband weakness: mods are hard to install, fragments community, less people to join servers
Bannerlord solution: everyone sees all the servers (installed or not), easy to join/play on any of them, interface is responsible to help you find what you want (via filters).

That works well on FPS games (or similar to Warband way to create new maps/scenes, not entire modules). It is the kind of solution that works best for most players that have little time, the ones that just have 30 minutes to play on that day, and have no time/patience to find out how to install something, they just want to have 30 minutes of fun and hit the bed.

We don't have a MP blog yet (last week was a dev blog, not the same thingy), so it is one of the aspects that could be interesting to see detailed on a future one.

 

[Styo]

+1 Rhade.

#nobattlenoME

 

[578]

If TaleWorlds never supported that mode.
And the community build it and maintained it.
Why not do it again?
We will get better and more powerfull modding tools then warband has. Are people really upset that they have to wait s bit before some modder has made this mode avaiable again?

I don’t play multiplayer and never touched the Battle mode. So I don’t know what all the fuss is about.

But I do know if TaleWorlds supported that mode and made their own variant, people would still be upset because in some detail or balancing it is different from the old one and therefor TaleWorlds ruined everything...
I can see why TaleWorlds wouldn’t get involved.

Because a community is consisted by fans. The amount of work that has been done by the competitive community (I am not one of them, just to be clear) has been tremendous. Maps, tournament hosting, even prize-consisting tournaments, research, testing and most importantly organizing. These things take time out of actually playing the game. TW has not balanced a thing the last years and they came back about a year ago and all they offered is a new 'horde' mode. A **** co-op horde mode that nobody plays. Removal of battle mode is a slap in the face of everyone who sees warband a little bit more seriously than just casually jumping in a server, play for 1 hour and exit the game. The variant you talk about regarding TW's new design is nothing but a casual 3-flag cap mode with little punishment.

 

[Arys]

rhade preaching the gospel

#nobattlenobks

 

[Nevino]

Only thing that kept be around for so long was battle and the tournaments that came with it.

Skirmish feels like a cheap cop out, it seems like an attempt to make competitive TDM, if you want something like that go towards the design of Overwatch and not any of this troop cost bs.

Correction: Yeah, I'd never play this, don't feel like doing competitive Captain Battle, cuz what's the point of actually being good at the game then? You want strategy, go play some Total War.

#nobattlenobks
#nobattlenoME

 

[_Osiris_]

"The item system from Warband has now been changed to a class-based system, with a perk list to customise your character (such as access to different weapons or better armour). This is the system we will be using across all of our multiplayer game modes."


So basically you are doing is getting rid of two of the major plus points of the game ie: the massive amount of choice you have in equipment classes and how to play your character and the large amount of players in the game modes.


To me this looks like Call of Duty: Medieval Warfare with its class system and crappy perk system playing a domination game mode with console level player numbers but then even Call of Duty appears to have more choices than you propose to give players with your class and perk system

 

[Duh]

They are not getting rid of large player count modes. They are only including the large player count mode Siege in the official matchmaking servers. Other modes are still available to community servers - as they are in WB.

 

[Gorlock]

Lmao you all act like the "Competitive scene" is this big deal and this means anything to them, you are like 300 people if that combined (baddies included).

Literally less than 1% of people who play this game, hell probably even those that play the multiplayer portion.

I don't care, I didnt drop out of school hoping I can play warband e-sports!!!

 

[Duh]

Any more flame-baiting from you and you may drop out of the forum, though.

 

[momcilo94]

you are like 300 people if that combined (baddies included).

400*

 

[Rhade]

Lmao you all act like the "Competitive scene" is this big deal and this means anything to them, you are like 300 people if that combined (baddies included).

Literally less than 1% of people who play this game, hell probably even those that play the multiplayer portion.

I don't care, I didnt drop out of school hoping I can play warband e-sports!!!

Do me a favor: click the spoiler button.

Spoiler

Done? Good.

Steam is the leading -- and not even remotely contested -- distribution platform for PC gaming, and of the games being played on Steam, those are the top ten. The top five represent, at this very moment, close to 1.5 million unique players, and of those games, 100% of them are multiplayer games with a large focus on competitive play, four of them (80%) with explicit dedicated e-sports scenes. I, personally, do not think Bannerlord is attempting to join that group, but it is important to understand the climate the industry is in when you're discussing marketing profiles and defining the identities of the demographics you're most likely going to be targeting.

These are objective, reputable metrics. Opinions don't really matter in the face of them.

#nobattlenobks

 

[Dethikus]

The item system from Warband has now been changed to a class-based system, with a perk list to customise your character (such as access to different weapons or better armour). This is the system we will be using across all of our multiplayer game modes.

Okay so the hashtag worked or we overreacted, either way we still have battle thankfully. This is good, but too good. But now we have

Call of Duty: Medieval Warfare with its class system and crappy perk system

Seriously? They're so desperate to bring in CoD players and other cash cows playerbases theyre destroying the uniqueness that made Warband what it is. Well Rhade start a new thread, Momchilo fire up a new petition.
Good thing theyre finally showing some transparency, so we can stop them from ****ing up every unique thing along the way 

 

[Gorlock]

Any more flame-baiting from you and you may drop out of the forum, though.

Are you threatening to ban me for one post you deem "Flame-baiting"?

Im trying to say there is a less than one percent loud mouthed minority that needs to chill, and flames a company for not making their needs more important than their base product.

IM SORRY LORD BRUTUS' SPAWN I WONT VOICE MY OPINION AGAIN!

Lmao you all act like the "Competitive scene" is this big deal and this means anything to them, you are like 300 people if that combined (baddies included).

Literally less than 1% of people who play this game, hell probably even those that play the multiplayer portion.

I don't care, I didnt drop out of school hoping I can play warband e-sports!!!

Do me a favor: click the spoiler button.

Spoiler

Done? Good.

Steam is the leading -- and not even remotely contested -- distribution platform for PC gaming, and of the games being played on Steam, those are the top ten. The top five represent, at this very moment, close to 1.5 million unique players, and of those games, 100% of them are multiplayer games with a large focus on competitive play, four of them (80%) with explicit dedicated e-sports scenes. I, personally, do not think Bannerlord is attempting to join that group, but it is important to understand the climate the industry is in when you're discussing marketing profiles and defining the identities of the demographics you're most likely going to be targeting.

These are objective, reputable metrics. Opinions don't really matter in the face of them.

#nobattlenobks

Of course they are not trying to get into the e-sports industry its a mess that would not bring them money but 3rd party orgs. All of these games listed on steams top 10 that are "esport comp based" all have micro transactions (skins, who cares) that make them money from continual play. Warband was up on the top 10 for a while and is still a largely played game even today, but 99% of people play singleplayer and that is that. Taleworlds doesn't make money from them continually playing their game only the initial purchase and any dlc (NW, etc).

Little bit of apples to oranges here, unless you want bannerlord to have skins lmao

 

[Guaccmoleboy]

Just ban him and get it over with

 

[Gorlock]

Just ban him and get it over with

 

[kalarhan]

Im trying to say there is a less than one percent

it doesn't matter how many they are, because that is TW problem. If the MP community will  help sell 10% of copies and do 50% of the free PR (videos, events, etc), or 0.5% of copies and 1% of PR, or whatever, it is something they need to figure out. With that data (that they won't share with us) they can decide how many resources to dedicate to this part of the game. Maybe they have only 2 devs (out of 60+) working on MP. Maybe they have 10. Maybe 30. They will do whatever they can for the sweet sweet $$$.

TW can also handle the feedback (nice or in flames), even if people cant contain their rage 

This week was a fluke. They didn't want to talk about this. They did not plan it. It was a clear accident from a dev blog. The idea was to introduce the guy working on MP, let the community know his name, maybe let him come to the forums and start talking with the community. Instead a slip in the text made the entire thingy blow up, the dev didn't show up (unlikely it will any time soon), and the PR guy (Callum) has to play firefighter and try to contain the flames. And to add to the problem it was the weekend, Monday was years away (in Internet time).

You do raise a (even if the wrong way) a interesting point tho. How many people played MP (Warband initial years), and how many were part of the competitive group. M&B sold like 6 million copies IIRC, Warband should be like +5 million copies then.

Just remember that this would happen with any other "accident". A blog suddenly tells that players can't do tournament at release, or play a trader, or become a king, or play female, etc, any SP feature like that, and this forum would blow up for a week or so.

Of course they are not trying to get into the e-sports industry its a mess that would not bring them money but 3rd party orgs

e-sports is not just about event money. It is also about PR. It spreads the name of the game around and can help sell copies. More $$$. If they can manage to create a great SP, a traditional MP and a e-sports MP (even if they have 20-40k players at any time) that would be great for the future of M&B.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

^correct

MP being a small part of Warband is exactly what they're trying to address by creating an improved MP experiece with matchmaking and streamlined modes. Even if it's not a money maker in terms of skins or tournaments - and honestly, I'd be surprised to NOT see cosmetics - the word of mouth a good MP experience generates is a revenue source itself.

Gorlock - bad cav, bad businessman.

 

[lolbash]

So, what ever happened to having no stupid dlc like ****ing skins?