No Ranged Cavalry?

[Kolaris]

Weren't feudal Japanese cavalry usually a ranged force? I'd heard that Takeda Shingen was notable for moving to more Yari-armed cavalry, possibly due to the superior breed of horse available to him. Was this actually an evolution of tactics across the country, and Shingen only pioneered it? I can't think of a reason all cavalry in the mod is melee, and the tradition of mounted archery is completely absent.

 

[recluse]

We'll wait and see if the resident experts will offer some details, but allow me to give it a try in the mean time.

Weren't feudal Japanese cavalry usually a ranged force?

Not in this period, in fact the bow archery fell out of fashion even earlier. Yes, the early mounted samurai were more akin to horse archers but by the sengoku period the samurai had traded his bow for a short spear and his armor had become tailored for fighting on foot as well as in the saddle.

It was also generally safer to avoid any stray projectiles (or enthusiastic head hunters) by sniping from friendly lines.

I'd heard that Takeda Shingen was notable for moving to more Yari-armed cavalry, possibly due to the superior breed of horse available to him.

The thing about Takeda is that they had access to some of the finest horses in Japan, so it wasn't only about tactics but also that many different clans simply didn't have the horses to implement them. And even when they did, bear in mind that local, period horses were significantly smaller/weaker then what you may imagine. And that those particular nags had to carry a fully armored warrior.

Now additionally try to imagine how effective those mounted archers would really be trying to skirmish with (many times their number) enemy gunmen and archers hiding behind shields.

I can't think of a reason all cavalry in the mod is melee, and the tradition of mounted archery is completely absent.

I know what you mean.

Even if not 100% accurate M&B is not M&B without hunting down horse archers stuck in a riverbed. I'd personally love some mounted gunners even though they would be a pain to balance properly. And it would be nice not having to mod them in manually between updates...

 

[Antonis]

Well, I cannot speak about what type of units were assigned as cavalry, I am hardly an expert in Sengoku period Japanese history. What I can say, however, is pretty much what recluse said. You can add and/or edit any troop you want, with a troop text editor, even if you don't want to meddle with the module files(which are provided by phlpp, so he made this task even easier. It's literally the easiest thing to do. However, the only problems, if you want to call them such is those: a)Gekokujo has many troops and it can pretty tiresome to change all the cavalry units and b)

I'd personally love some mounted gunners even though they would be a pain to balance properly. And it would be nice not having to mod them in manually between updates...

Pretty difficult to balance type of troops and when a new version comes out, you'd have to do it all again(or just copy their entries from a backup of the edited file you made. Up to you, really. 

 

[Hasegawa_Taizou]

隐藏

thats screen made by Jenci21HUN.

 

[Michiko]

According to this book, the samurai were essentially mounted archers from the Heian up to the Sengoku period (and beyond most likely, except that Japan was already unified after that point until around the Bakumatsu or so).

The art was and still is taught today.

I was working on a personal modification for Gekokujo some time before to make all samurai archers (or gunners, as the case may be), but I got lazy and never really finished it lol.

As for the balance of guns on horseback, I think it'd be pretty weak tbh. Or it should be unless you modify the guns to be reloadable on horseback. You can't reload those on horseback IRL. They can essentially shoot once, which can still be of tactical use if you tell them to hold fire, set up on the flank and get in range, then suddenly shoot. Since nobody has shields it'll likely do significant damage and cause panic on the enemy line, then order them to charge after that one shot, hopefully simultaneously with other cavalry and infantry.

 

[littlesake]

According to Nihon Gaishi (日本外史), an 18th-century book on the history of Japan, Volume 11 on Takeda and Uesugi

然源氏。足利氏。每自東國起。其兵習騎戰。而足利氏居京畿。不恤馬政。織田。豐臣。德川。竝起侯甸。少騎多步。卽如二家。雖較多騎。亦以其國險不便騎。騎率徒取致遠。至戰槪舍馬步鬬。故騎戰遂廢。又用火器與長槍。以爲軍鋒。而弓矢之用稍衰。是又我邦兵體變遷。不可不知也。此時兵農雖別。往往收漁獵者爲弓銃手。收盜賊爲間諜。以補隊伍充斥侯。二家皆是。二家之陣。大約弓銃手居前。長槍步卒次之。騎士次之。牙旗鼓螺居中。左右拒夾之。輜重居後。游兵居外。每戰。交發弓銃。長槍從之。士下馬以進。或自卒傍出。或自中跳盪而出。戰酣。或以麾下乘之。雖變化無準。槪以此爲常。一時竝同此法。

Basically what Rai San-Yo the author claims that the Minamoto (including Ashikaga) originated from Kanto and were good at cavalry warfare. But the Ashikaga moved to Kinai and alienated themselves from cavalry. Others like Oda, Toyotomi, Tokugawa had more infantry than cavalry. Only the Takeda and Uesugi clans had more horsemen but because of the mountainous terrain in their domains, the horses were more often used for transportation. Warriors would dismount before engaging in melee. As a result, cavalry warfare during this period deteriorated. In addition, the wide spread usage of firearms and yari-pikes in the vanguard made archery fall out of fashion. Even though soldiers were generally separated from peasants, a lot of times, most Daimyo (even Takeda and Uesugi) would use hunters as archers and bandits as spies for reconnaissance. Their formations were probably like this: archers and gunmen in the front followed by Yari and other foot soldiers. Cavalry were placed after them. Other banner bearers and drum corps were placed in the middle surrounded by soldiers. Supply units were in the rear and skirmishers roaming in the outskirts. When engaged, archers and gunmen would fire at each other. Then yari warriors would follow up. Samurai would then dismount and march into battle. They would either flank the enemy or charge head on. When the battle is stuck, sometimes the elite bodyguards would charge in to exploit the enemy weakness to turn the tide.

If you are interested in the source, see kindai.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/771511 page 83-84

 

[Kolaris]

Thank you all for the detailed responses. It seems my timeline on the rise of firearms in Japan was off by 20 years or so. I thought it wasn't until Nagashino that they truly caught on, and then employed heavily to the advantage of Hideyoshi and Tokugawa in the 1580s-1590s. It's really quite incredible that they were adapted so quickly, to the point they had phased out centuries-old military tradition in the span of only a few decades.