Why don't we get points for capturing flags in Skirmish and Captain mode?
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No points for collecting flags?
- Thread starter WhiteEyedSh4rk
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I guess the point is in their helping to win the match, via influencing morale.
I've noticed many times, that players just forget to capture flags, I think it would be good to give them some more "direct" reward for taking care of the flags.
Yea, it is sometimes actually pretty difficult to do this, why not reward it?
Maybe we can give them points for closing the door behind them in siege too, because they often forget that as well. Or maybe people at some point will have to learn what wins and loses with out a number being attached. If a player fails at the basic premise of attaching important to one of the main objectives of the game I don't think giving them some points for it will help. If it some how does, that's really pathetic that people are only ignoring something because a meaningless number isn't attached.
I have mostly opposite experience on this. Most of the time there's this 1 guy who thinks it's a good idea to go cap a flag alone and suprise, he gets absolutely steamrolled because he was all alone and of course it's everyones except his fault. This applies to both Captain and Skirmish.
So no, i don't think it's a good idea to reward something that is there only to force teams to move from their spawn.
In siege, it's extremely benefiting to sneak behind enemy lines and cap flags like G and F and then hold them for a few seconds. It forces the defending team to commit lots of men behind, leaving their frontlines disoriented and exposed.
By that logic, why even count kills, deaths and assists then? The idea is to attach a value to an act of importance. It doesn't have to be everything, capping flags and destroying siege machinery is usually more important than getting a single kill. This is just a gimmick though, I'm not saying it's absolutely necessary, just that it would be better.
On the other hand, this is probably not even close to being the 30000th priority on taleworld's list of priorities, so we're wasting time in this thread.
Why indeed make those numbers countable? what does it add? or an out of game exp counter?
It acts as motivation and gives a sense of achievemen, excitement and competition. It shows you how good you are in certain things compared to others. Thats the whole point of multiplayers.
So, you need some arbitrary number in order to do something, you're not motivated to win as a test of skill against other people, you're not excited by the contest of blade against blade, or excited by a close battle... unless someone attaches a number to it? You should open an excel sheet and just keep scrolling, the higher numbers will motivate and excite you.
Don't argue with him. He'll take every single one of your words literally and try to make a meaningless argument. He is right and we, along with 99% of game developers in history are wrong.
I thought the point of a forum was a back and forth on different ideas with the goal of furthering knowledge and sharing opinions. If you weren't willing to defend your position maybe you shouldn't have put it forth to be examined.
Also, plenty of game developers are wrong, there are a ton of failed games out there, and a quick browse of this section of the forum will show you a dedicated fan base with the goal of helping these game developers in particular improve their game, through communication and debate. Taking your toys and going home saying, 'well, i'm a developer and your a customer, so what do you know' helps no one and has led to some of the irked feelings exhibited in regards to the state of bannerlord multiplayer. But what do I know, I'm just a filthy customer plebeian.
EDIT: By 'these developers' I meant the ones here, I'm not trying to imply a link between developers who have put forth a failed game and taleworlds. Rereading it I felt it was a statement that could have been read different then intended.
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I have to jump in a Derped@Warbands defense and say it's a lazy gameplay mechanic if a arbitrary number in stat screen is major factor to do stuff in a multiplayer game. That's my opinion on whole flag system in Bannerlord, it's lazy mechanic to make maps more interesting than they really are.
You are now calling the whole concept of multiplayer games into question, this is not what this thread is about. I don't think that anyone else will think its a good idea to get rid of points in multiplayer games. Arguing about this wont help the developers nor lead to an improvement of the game.
No, I'm calling the need for adding the arbitrary number tallies for flag caps into question. I enjoy the game, despite it's limitations, and plan on enjoying it even more when some of the limitations are addressed. Your need for a number behind something doesn't instantly negate the entire premise of skill versus skill as a concept or the point of gaming against another human in a contest of skill. So far you're only arguing point has been 'I need a number or this isn't worth doing', which is a boring point to argue against, but so far that's all I have to work with.
I'm pretty sure I never advocated getting rid of the K-D or the W-(RIP lose counter), I asked you their point, so we could define why it was you felt adding a flag counter would improve the game. Your response was that you felt you needed a number to justify something. Nice trying to redefine that, but no.
If you truly felt arguing about this wouldn't lead to improvement in the game, why would you even bring it up on the forums?
His last argument wasn't about giving points to capping flags or whatever. He outright twisted the discussion to necessity of kill counts and points in games in general, which I don't have time for discussing.
NOBODY said you need points to encourage you to do useful stuff in games, but they're nice to have. His arguments are making us sound like we're incapable of playing any game which does not have a scoreboard, which is outright twisting what WhiteEyedSh4rk and I have said in the first place.
How do you get to that from that? People don't know how to make arguments and yet they shamelessly call out people when they refuse to argue with them. Arguing with idiots who cannot process what they read is pointless, and a waste of time.
But whole thread is about caps and points and he gave examples why point system is mostly bad. Just good for discussion.
How about this?
Dunno who you refer to when you only use pronouns and make a sweeping statement. This entire thread is about points for capturing flags; it's been my main focus that that would be meaningless and every post I've made has touched on that at least tangentially or in regards to countering a point made by someone else. Maybe you mean when I said it (a tally for flag capture points) was a meaningless number and WhiteEyedSh4rk said that I must think all numbers in games are meaningless? Yes, that certainly was a twist. Just as much of a twist as you turning my saying I'm not advocating getting rid of the numbers we have to me saying they are a necessity?
uh... Well, this one has been answered by someone before me, but you know, try to read the thread about the thing when you're making a point about the thing the thread is about. It was literally the first point someone had for why to introduce points for capturing flags. In addition, you've yet to tell me what the number adds to the game, so yes it does kind of come off like you need a scoreboard to play a game. I don't, I'm not arguing to increase the scoreboard tallies here. I've already got most of what I want from this game. Skill based based combat where I'm pitting my skills against another person's, or a my team's skills versus another team's. Yes some work is needed, but I don't see that another number count would add to that enjoyment, and nobody has told me how it would add enjoyment. It might get more people playing longer to get a higher number, this is true, but dependency is not enjoyment.
He said that the number adds to the enjoyment (achievement, excitement, competition). If the gameplay is lackluster enough where you need to chase a number, I can send you an excel spread sheet with a little 'you win' at the bottom, and you can go get 'the number,' or there are plenty of clicker games where you can get the highest number ever. I don't need a number count to tell me that it's a fun time to catapult a firebomb onto a group of people trying to push a ram. I don't need a number to feel the thrill of a close combat with someone at the end of a skirmish match with everything riding on who wins. I don't need a number to tell me how much fun it was to couch lance the poor archer who wasn't looking. Adding a number doesn't add to those experiences, it makes them a statistic. whoop-de-do.
I hope you're more consistent in your developmental plans and sticking to them then you are in your adherence to not responding to people you disagree with or continuing with something you think is futile. I guess you will argue over a scoreboard in a game. Thanks for the best wishes, I wish you a happy day full of good tidings.
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