No NPC Lords Willing to Leave Current Kingdom???

[horatius7]

This is 1.6 beta.

Every lord I've gone to refuse my inquiries about if they want to join my kingdom. They all say they are happy with their current kingdom and have no desire to go elsewhere. Then the dialogue ends - no persuasion opportunity or anything.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe the game doesn't recognize me as an individual kingdom? I did all the crap for Neterze's Folly and had all the check boxes green (>100 people, not joined to a Kingdom, Clan Tier at 4 etc.) but when I spoke with Azardos, he just said I could find it on the Clan panel to make my own kingdom. I clicked "Make Kingdom", but the Nerteze's Folly quest hasn't updated, and it removed the check mark for being independent of a clan (because, I guess, I'm now part of my own clan...?).

Thanks for any help!

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Do you have access to the diplomacy screen? If you do, you're a kingdom, if it's greyed out you're a solo clan. Also I don't think you can have that dialogue with anyone if you're not a ruler, I think it's a different question then.

They will refuse if you're chances are too low so it doesn't waste you time on the dialogue you can't pass (or can't pay them to join).

A vassal consider's many things as to if they will possibly join you( in rough importance order):
1 Do they have a fief? If they do it becomes much more expensive and unlikely they will join you. If they don't it's much easier/cheaper.
2 How much power do you have (parties and garrisons= Power) compared to the faction they're in? The bigger you are the better.
3 DO they like thier king, do they like you? If they have low relations with the king and good relation with you, it help you, if not.... the opposite
4 Finally, how much money could you pay them to join? The worse you are in the 1 2 3 tips the more they would want to join you and if you don't even have the amount they would want, they won't give you the dialogue to try.

Here is formula posted by @mexxico recently
1.6.0 formula was opponent directly rejecting if needed money is > 20% of player's money at 1.6.1 it will be 33% + 250K. Also we are changing dialog opponent says while rejecting your offer it was not clear enough why he rejects.

So that's an idea of how much money you need to have! In general a fief-less clan will join you for say 250K or so, but it could still be more or less depending on you power level and relations. If you have just 1 fief and thier faction is big a strong, they may still want too much to join you.

Hire mercenaries and try to expand your faction (creating fief-less lords by taking thier homes) will help you be more likely to get vassals!

If it turns out you're not a kingdom yet, consider using the solo clan status to take more fiefs before declaring a kingdom. Being a solo clan you can make peace and not have war declared on you, so you can focus on taking fiefs from 1 weak faction or such. This depends on using you 1 party to defeat enemies and take fiefs though, so it's not for everyone.

 

[horatius7]

Do you have access to the diplomacy screen? If you do, you're a kingdom, if it's greyed out you're a solo clan. Also I don't think you can have that dialogue with anyone if you're not a ruler, I think it's a different question then.

They will refuse if you're chances are too low so it doesn't waste you time on the dialogue you can't pass (or can't pay them to join).

A vassal consider's many things as to if they will possibly join you( in rough importance order):
1 Do they have a fief? If they do it becomes much more expensive and unlikely they will join you. If they don't it's much easier/cheaper.
2 How much power do you have (parties and garrisons= Power) compared to the faction they're in? The bigger you are the better.
3 DO they like thier king, do they like you? If they have low relations with the king and good relation with you, it help you, if not.... the opposite
4 Finally, how much money could you pay them to join? The worse you are in the 1 2 3 tips the more they would want to join you and if you don't even have the amount they would want, they won't give you the dialogue to try.

Here is formula posted by @mexxico recently
1.6.0 formula was opponent directly rejecting if needed money is > 20% of player's money at 1.6.1 it will be 33% + 250K. Also we are changing dialog opponent says while rejecting your offer it was not clear enough why he rejects.

So that's an idea of how much money you need to have! In general a fief-less clan will join you for say 250K or so, but it could still be more or less depending on you power level and relations. If you have just 1 fief and thier faction is big a strong, they may still want too much to join you.

Hire mercenaries and try to expand your faction (creating fief-less lords by taking thier homes) will help you be more likely to get vassals!

If it turns out you're not a kingdom yet, consider using the solo clan status to take more fiefs before declaring a kingdom. Being a solo clan you can make peace and not have war declared on you, so you can focus on taking fiefs from 1 weak faction or such. This depends on using you 1 party to defeat enemies and take fiefs though, so it's not for everyone.

OK, yea, I have access to the diplomacy screen, and I've named the kingdom etc. I tried it on a lord I had +38 relation with, and I had ~$500k at the time, so I would've thought that would be enough. I didn't check on how much they like their current lord though. I'll work on building up more cash though! Thank you for that formula. That really helps. I'll reply back with any news (success or failure!)

 

[Kentai]

Sorry for the necro bump. I didn't want to create a new post since the topic is the same. I'm still on 1.5.10 due to some of my mods not working in 1.6 and am also experiencing lords flat-out refusing to entertain my persuasion attempts. I have around 850k currently with one town and four full clan parties including mine. I went to war with Vlandia whose force strength was around 3,500 while mine is around 850 and wiped the floor with them for about three hours. I didn't take any aggressive action towards their settlements or villages in fear of losing my traits and the relation I had worked hard to build with the lords (The ones I was targeting for catch and release got to around 30-40 relation with my by the time I was finished).

I'm concerned about being too aggressive with only one settlement and four parties since I'm sure I'll have an 800-count army stack up my butt soon after attempting a siege while the most I can field in an army is around 500. Also there's the relation hit from initiating a siege, which would be totally counter-productive since I've been catching and releasing these same lords expressly to increase relation. I've never been a fan of raiding villages either because I'm assuming it also affects relation, but I've also never tried it so maybe it's an option.

Getting the first few clans has always been the trickiest part of a campaign. In the past having a fat stack of cash from trading and smithing, along with some charm luck was enough to get the ball rolling but now I'm feeling discourage since there's not even a chance to persuade. Do I just need to pump out more weapons and get my income a lot higher to pass the income percentage threshold you guys were mentioning so they'll let me try to persuade, or am I just not doing enough damage to their kingdom? I took them from around 3,500 strength to 2,500 while at the same time mine was near 1,000 when I finally decided to sue for peace. Thanks for taking the time to read through this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[horatius7]

Sorry for the necro bump. I didn't want to create a new post since the topic is the same. I'm still on 1.5.10 due to some of my mods not working in 1.6 and am also experiencing lords flat-out refusing to entertain my persuasion attempts. I have around 850k currently with one town and four full clan parties including mine. I went to war with Vlandia whose force strength was around 3,500 while mine is around 850 and wiped the floor with them for about three hours. I didn't take any aggressive action towards their settlements or villages in fear of losing my traits and the relation I had worked hard to build with the lords (The ones I was targeting for catch and release got to around 30-40 relation with my by the time I was finished).

I'm concerned about being too aggressive with only one settlement and four parties since I'm sure I'll have an 800-count army stack up my butt soon after attempting a siege while the most I can field in an army is around 500. Also there's the relation hit from initiating a siege, which would be totally counter-productive since I've been catching and releasing these same lords expressly to increase relation. I've never been a fan of raiding villages either because I'm assuming it also affects relation, but I've also never tried it so maybe it's an option.

Getting the first few clans has always been the trickiest part of a campaign. In the past having a fat stack of cash from trading and smithing, along with some charm luck was enough to get the ball rolling but now I'm feeling discourage since there's not even a chance to persuade. Do I just need to pump out more weapons and get my income a lot higher to pass the income percentage threshold you guys were mentioning so they'll let me try to persuade, or am I just not doing enough damage to their kingdom? I took them from around 3,500 strength to 2,500 while at the same time mine was near 1,000 when I finally decided to sue for peace. Thanks for taking the time to read through this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Yep, I'm in the same boat, but I finally learned what makes them change their mind. You basically can only recruit clans who don't own any towns/castles. It is a royal pain in the butt and is a huge barrier to entry in terms of trying to start your own kingdom. What I've been doing is basically trying to be nice to everyone I can, then searching for clans in the diplomacy screen and sorting by # of settlements owned. This has been where I've been targeting my recruiting and relationship efforts. They're still wicked expensive to convince, but I grinded my way up the smithing ladder again and can make pretty decent stuff.

 

[Kentai]

Yep, I'm in the same boat, but I finally learned what makes them change their mind. You basically can only recruit clans who don't own any towns/castles. It is a royal pain in the butt and is a huge barrier to entry in terms of trying to start your own kingdom. What I've been doing is basically trying to be nice to everyone I can, then searching for clans in the diplomacy screen and sorting by # of settlements owned. This has been where I've been targeting my recruiting and relationship efforts. They're still wicked expensive to convince, but I grinded my way up the smithing ladder again and can make pretty decent stuff.

Thanks for the reply! Guess I need to shift focus then. The difficulty is compounded by the fact that I'll probably have to recruit from kingdoms that don't match the culture where I'm establishing my own. I'm in Vlandian territory so if the only lords without factions are Khuzaiti or Aserain they're going to have a -3 loyalty hit if I give them fiefs near mine as I acquire them. In your experience have fiefless lords you've recruited stuck around reliably until you were able to give them their own settlements?

 

[horatius7]

Thanks for the reply! Guess I need to shift focus then. The difficulty is compounded by the fact that I'll probably have to recruit from kingdoms that don't match the culture where I'm establishing my own. I'm in Vlandian territory so if the only lords without factions are Khuzaiti or Aserain they're going to have a -3 loyalty hit if I give them fiefs near mine as I acquire them. In your experience have fiefless lords you've recruited stuck around reliably until you were able to give them their own settlements?

So far, yea! The starting relation is really only important for the initial recruitment. I think it makes it so you have to pay less or have a higher likelihood of passing the speech checks. But after you successfully convince them I believe their relation goes straight to 100, so you have to really repeatedly piss them off for them to leave.

 

[Kentai]

Even fiefless it isn't enough apparently. I used the dev console to take away all of Calatild's fiefs. Even with 50 relation with her she still is happy supporting her kingdom. This is getting ridiculous...

 

[Apocal]

Even fiefless it isn't enough apparently. I used the dev console to take away all of Calatild's fiefs. Even with 50 relation with her she still is happy supporting her kingdom. This is getting ridiculous...

That line is used even though the real reason is you don't have enough money to buy her loyalty.

 

[Emperor1997]

That line is used even though the real reason is you don't have enough money to buy her loyalty.

That is not true, they saying this even you have one billion denars.

 

[Apocal]

That is not true, they saying this even you have one billion denars.

...

If they will want from you too much money after persuasion steps compared to your current financial situation they directly reject to save player from time. Thats all. Of course maybe with future additions denars opponent clan want to change sides would change according to persuasion steps however currently that system is not working like that so best is breaking dialog at first if final amount is too much for player. Later if persuasion steps effects money opponent will want this initial breaking dialog conditions can be changed.

 

[Burnaa]

bash them they know who boss
get some mercenary keep them close (army) otherwise they bash everything and you will be poor soon.
war is the best way to cash up. tons of gear to sell.
i dont chop heads this time just prisoneer them, works well with patch e1.6.x.
if you fight a enemy and you let him go you get relation improvement. in peacetime you can barter with people to get relation even right before you try to convince them to join you.
on map press K go to diplomacy check out who is the weakest kingdom (it doesn't matter if empire or not), klick on the leader portrait then on the clan portrait then again clan portrait left side.
klick through every clan of the kingdom find one without fief klick the leader then klick the star left top, add to bookmark. repeat this you can bookmark a lot of people.
on map press N go to heroes klick the first one, now you can switch them through with the next/previous page button at the right bottom corner so you can check quick if they moved.
klick right top last seen near location and activate the track button.
my 13 clan's needed between 1 and 400.000 denar each to convince them. one guy had a relation of -22 and i got him. save the game before you start the try sometimes it takes a couple of shots to get them. i save the game before leaving my kingdom if enything go wrong i reload after i found a clan who join me. reload clear problems of the kingdom and heading toward the one or more i know i can get.

but yeah the origin is real hard especially if more kingdoms declare war on you and you have to make peace and pay them. if you fight two kingdoms make peace with the stronger one. fight the other until you receive cash or at least that you not pay to much. save and try to convince weakest of them. declare war to the other kingdom fight a few troops to drop the payment. they can have more total strength but if you kill enough troops they will pay you so avoid the big armies and kill the little one's.

 

[Kentai]

Thanks for the advice everyone. For me it turned out to be a money issue. I had beaten Vlandia down to nothing and had 1.6 million on me, but was still getting the message. I stopped and farmed smithing for a few hours and got around 3 million. At that point Calatild let me try to persuade her, which I was easily able to do thanks to all the charm skill I have and our relation.