SP - Battles & Sieges No more Neo vs Smith fights

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Lord Ferdinand

Lord Ferdinand

Knight
Old Guard Steam
I thought I would never see again fights like in Warband... enemy soldiers massing against you in a totally confusing attack. It would be more realistic if someone hesitate, being afraid to die, not like Smith vs. Neo in Matrix Reloaded.
We should inspire terror, specially if we are heavly armored (vs low tier enemies) and our renown is high. And specially if we are surrounded but we are killing many of them.

tjzq4smn


 
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On the opposite side: Seeing a group of six looters charging my army of 600+ battle-hardened warriors consisting of: 330 infantry, 66 cavalry, 68 horse archers, and 175 ranged units... in an open field. I just let them run into the hail of arrows/bolts as I sat on my horse and laughed at them. They ran so far just so one of them was able to throw one rock, which hit a shield.
 
I would also like to see situations where your army surrounds a slower enemy after running them down, as well as the opposite. ie: My mounted army of 600+, or even my mounted party of 300+ catches up to a caravan. The 30 or so strong caravan decides to fight. The battle should at least have a chance to start with the caravan surrounded in an inward-facing circular formation. There are also a lot of mountains, cliffs, and rivers. Can we have situations where we chase/or are chased into a dead end? I know you started this as a post about confusing tactics, but they could really run with this.
 
To be clearer, this is what I mean (more or less):

It's Warband but also in Bannerlord the soldiers try to attack everybody at the same time, even when you kill many of them, nobody hesitates. There is just a difference, the morale effect, but also this could be made better I think... for example not everybody at the same time should run from battle
 
Well...at least we have better graphics?

Seriously, I don't know that this was a completely accurate portrayal of the combat, but I see your point. While this probably wasn't how a battle was intended to be fought in the games, that is an actual tactic. (Real-life method incoming) As you run away, the fastest attacker splits from the others as they compete to catch you. You turn and beat them, then run until the next attacker splits from the pack. This is repeated until all attackers are down and you win, or you tire out and lose. This, of course, relies on the defender being faster than the attackers. If you are slower than them, they will just tackle you and beat you to a pulp.

Moving on: There is always going to be a limit to the AI's tactical abilities. In their programmed minds, they number more than you so they should have the advantage if they attack. The AI doesn't understand the concept of their target purposefully running away on foot to attack them in this way. The intelligent thing to do? Have them run for a certain distance, then give up and return to the archers in order to force you to confront them from well within their projectile range while defending their archers from melee attacks. The archers should not be constantly moving as they are shown to be doing. I mean, they have shields! make a shield wall and soak up the arrows! But AI is not that intelligent and just assumes a win from numerical superiority. Could they write code to account for this? Yes. could they write code to account for every possible tactical maneuver and be able to have the AI process all of it and apply it in real-time, including adjusting for counter-tactics? Not within the constraints of current technology. Maybe once quantum computing is available to the masses, but it would take decades, possibly centuries to program. In other words, it should be available in Mount & Blade 3: Tribal Ascension (since they seem to be going backward in the timeline).

I both excitedly wait for and fear the day when AI tactical intelligence can outsmart a human in real-time. That to me will be the beginning of the end, but games like this will be so very realistic so it won't be all bad...
 
Ackdam said:
Well...at least we have better graphics?

Seriously, I don't know that this was a completely accurate portrayal of the combat, but I see your point. While this probably wasn't how a battle was intended to be fought in the games, that is an actual tactic. (Real-life method incoming) As you run away, the fastest attacker splits from the others as they compete to catch you. You turn and beat them, then run until the next attacker splits from the pack. This is repeated until all attackers are down and you win, or you tire out and lose. This, of course, relies on the defender being faster than the attackers. If you are slower than them, they will just tackle you and beat you to a pulp.

Moving on: There is always going to be a limit to the AI's tactical abilities. In their programmed minds, they number more than you so they should have the advantage if they attack. The AI doesn't understand the concept of their target purposefully running away on foot to attack them in this way. The intelligent thing to do? Have them run for a certain distance, then give up and return to the archers in order to force you to confront them from well within their projectile range while defending their archers from melee attacks. The archers should not be constantly moving as they are shown to be doing. I mean, they have shields! make a shield wall and soak up the arrows! But AI is not that intelligent and just assumes a win from numerical superiority. Could they write code to account for this? Yes. could they write code to account for every possible tactical maneuver and be able to have the AI process all of it and apply it in real-time, including adjusting for counter-tactics? Not within the constraints of current technology. Maybe once quantum computing is available to the masses, but it would take decades, possibly centuries to program. In other words, it should be available in Mount & Blade 3: Tribal Ascension (since they seem to be going backward in the timeline).

I both excitedly wait for and fear the day when AI tactical intelligence can outsmart a human in real-time. That to me will be the beginning of the end, but games like this will be so very realistic so it won't be all bad...
Click to expand...
It can't be that complex. This isn't about AlphaStar. And in real life any attacker has some sense of self preservation.

I understand where you're coming from, but there's no way that this is the best they can do. You also don't need to account for every possible tactical maneuver, just let them wait for 3 more people in attack range if the enemy is outnumbered.

Hell, if a random youtuber can use self-learning algorithms to some effect, the guys at TW can get this right to a reasonable degree.
 
I feel that this could also dovetail with making cavalry a bit more useful - the AI could recognize the danger posed by a charging horse and back off unless they are going to attack with a spear or similar weapon. Making cavalry a bit more useful against archers. Rather than how it works now that cavalry gets stuck between archers who don’t care about the danger of the horse and just pull out their melee weapons to whack away at the mounted soldier.
 
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