No javelins/throwing spears for Nord veterans?

[inox_ionizer]

As the title suggests, I'm wondering why these weapons were removed from the Nord veterans. Were they too powerful? I don't think they are better than throwing axes. Of course, having the option would be an advantage, but taking away the basic throwing weapon from the class that excels at throwing isn't a good way to balance things in my opinion.

Also, several sources seem to say that the ordinary (not specialized for throwing) Viking spears were sometimes used as throwing weapons. Could that be a good thing to implement? Not necessarily just for Nords.

隐藏

These, an elongated diamond shape, were effective hand to hand weapons. This was the most common use, but these throw well also.

There is some literary and archeological evidence that the Norse were familiar with and used the javelin for hunting and warfare, but they commonly used a spear designed for both throwing and thrusting. The Old Norse word for javelin was frakka.

While spears were certainly used as missiles during the Viking age, there's a disadvantage to throwing your weapon away in a fight. Not only do you lose your weapon, but you risk having your opponent pick it up and use it against you if you miss. Worse, your weapon may be caught in flight and flung back at you, a trick used on several occasions by Gunnar (e.g.,  Brennu-Njáls saga chapter 54). Despite these risks, the sagas are filled with examples where spears were thrown, such as chapter 145 of  Brennu-Njáls saga. Spears were also used with "throwing strings" (snærisspjót) for longer reach, such as in chapter 24 of Reykdæla saga og Víga-Skútu where Skúta shot a spear across a river ford, killing Þrándur.

Another interesting thing here is the "throwing string". That's probably radical enough for an own topic though.

 

[Kleidophoros]

Yeah i kinda miss the throwing spears for veterans. they are more accurate then axes; better horse killers.

 

[Commodore_Frank]

Some type of infantry really needs the throwing spears. I miss those buggers.

 

[Emciel]

currently swadian inf have NO throwing weapons =/
now i know they're not typical throwers... btu it does seem a little unfair

 

[Iscariott]

currently swadian inf have NO throwing weapons =/
now i know they're not typical throwers... btu it does seem a little unfair

It's a limitation the faction requires for balance, and fits with flavor. 

 

[inox_ionizer]

As I see it, flavour is what the Swadian infantry is sorely lacking. They are so generic. Apart from the odd pikeman, I only see them with 2- or 1,5-handed swords and usually a shield for missile protection. While throwing weapons are maybe not exactly the best solution to this, I would rather have them have that than being so immensely generic. For balance, maybe the big swords could be made slower, or the other Swaidan classes nerfed.

 

[Attacksmurfen]

I don't see a problem with Swadian infantry being pure "men at arms" fighters.
Their lack of thrown weapons is what gives the other infantry a chance against them, as soon as a fight enters swords vs swords/axes/polearms Swadians usually kick ass if in equal numbers.

 

[Iscariott]

As I see it, flavour is what the Swadian infantry is sorely lacking. They are so generic. Apart from the odd pikeman, I only see them with 2- or 1,5-handed swords and usually a shield for missile protection. While throwing weapons are maybe not exactly the best solution to this, I would rather have them have that than being so immensely generic. For balance, maybe the big swords could be made slower, or the other Swaidan classes nerfed.

That would be awful.

 

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Nords should have javelins with long iron shafts.  I wish javelins would be used in a more historical context- not just to kill but also to make a shield less effective or downright useless.  Shields with javelins in them should be slower to raise or with enough javelins impossible to use in addition to slowing down the running speed of the shieldbearer.

 

[Phallas]

I think that a gving them back the spears will reduce the axe throwing spam.
Anyway who the hell chooses the nord horseman anyway, if not for the throwing spears.

 

[PsykoOps]

Nords should have javelins with long iron shafts.  I wish javelins would be used in a more historical context- not just to kill but also to make a shield less effective or downright useless.  Shields with javelins in them should be slower to raise or with enough javelins impossible to use in addition to slowing down the running speed of the shieldbearer.

Did nords have these too? I thought it was only romans way before medieval times who used them.

 

[Te Beset]

Maybe just a couple extra powerful longer javelins?

 

[Phallas]

The 'nords' Are most likely the Normans. The normans where the ones who brought a **** load of crossbows to Britain.
By no means is this game historically accurate or else nords would have crossbows.

Although the romans brought balistas they took them back with them when they left.

 

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Nords should have javelins with long iron shafts.  I wish javelins would be used in a more historical context- not just to kill but also to make a shield less effective or downright useless.  Shields with javelins in them should be slower to raise or with enough javelins impossible to use in addition to slowing down the running speed of the shieldbearer.

Did nords have these too? I thought it was only romans way before medieval times who used them.

You mean the Norse?  AFAIK they did use throwing spears to some extent.  Most cultures did until the advent of stronger armor and shield design.

The 'nords' Are most likely the Normans. The normans where the ones who brought a **** load of crossbows to Britain.
By no means is this game historically accurate or else nords would have crossbows.

Although the romans brought balistas they took them back with them when they left.

The Nords are based on the Norse, aka vikings.

 

[PsykoOps]

My point was more about the timing. Did anyone after the romans use the kind of javelin that was designed to stick to a shield? Maybe they could have real proper long javelins that do huge damage but only carry something like 2 of them?
And norse / nords, they all look alike to me 

 

[Wild Bill Kelso]

My point was more about the timing. Did anyone after the romans use the kind of javelin that was designed to stick to a shield? Maybe they could have real proper long javelins that do huge damage but only carry something like 2 of them?
And norse / nords, they all look alike to me 

Many cultures used javelins in this manner, the Norse included. 

 

[Gothic Knight]

The 'nords' Are most likely the Normans. The normans where the ones who brought a **** load of crossbows to Britain.
By no means is this game historically accurate or else nords would have crossbows.

Although the romans brought balistas they took them back with them when they left.

...The Normans didn't have that many crossbows when they invaded England

However, Phallas does have one thing right and that is the style that the Norman cavalry utilized which is similar to how I use the Nord scout. Some Norman cavalry threw javelins and then charged in with a spear or a sword but other than that, the Anglo Saxons have more in common with the Nords than the Normans.

 

[olo]

olo votes no on adding more throwing weapons.  (olobane)

 

[Hamel]

olo votes no on adding more throwing weapons.  (olobane)

Andoron agrees! Olobane is far too fast and accurate (relatively), to be used even more than it is now.

 

[Gumpy]

currently swadian inf have NO throwing weapons =/

I want my jarids back