No Falchion?

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Yes, falchion appeared in the High Middle Ages.
By the way it is more metal than a knight sword.
in the dark ages of middle-class men used sax-knives and axes.
swords (and mail), could afford only the upper class men.
 
In a viking society (and I expect this to be pretty much the same) swords were quite rare and were mainly brought from France and the Byzantine Empire because the vikings lacked the metal and cunning blacksmiths. A good sword could often cost more than a house.
That's why vikings are often depicted with axes - because it was a weapon that packed much power and was easy enough to make.

As for the seax; according to the Rosala viking museum the real purpose of the seax knife is unclear but it's possible that it was used as a weapon. Make of this what you will.
 
They do? That's interesting. Do you have any good sources for further reading? I find Wikipedia rather lacking :razz:
 
Nasferatu 说:
Not true falchions appeared as a weapon in the epic poem Beowulf

No they don't. They might appear in some modern translations of Beowulf, where the translator chooses to use that word for a kind of sword to translate an old English word for a sword, but I can absolutely 100% guarantee you the word falchion never appears in Beowulf.
 
as falchion could be mentioned in Beowulf (writing in the 8 century) when it appears the 13 century?
 
UnholyNighmare 说:
In a viking society (and I expect this to be pretty much the same) swords were quite rare and were mainly brought from France and the Byzantine Empire because the vikings lacked the metal and cunning blacksmiths. A good sword could often cost more than a house.
That's why vikings are often depicted with axes - because it was a weapon that packed much power and was easy enough to make.
You are right that swords were a status weapon, good swords were very expensive (not as expensive as a mail hauberk though). But the Vikings did make their own swords, just like the peoples of the vendel age and long before that. Frankish (depending on how certain you are that Ulfbehrt swords really are Frankish in origin) and middle eastern swords were of better quality and/or indicative of greater wealth and status but vikings did make swords and Scandinavian weapons industry was pretty well developed thanks to readily available Iron and relatively advanced iron smelting techniques.

UnholyNighmare 说:
As for the seax; according to the Rosala viking museum the real purpose of the seax knife is unclear but it's possible that it was used as a weapon. Make of this what you will.
I'm pretty sure they are just being a bit to precaucious about making definitive statements. I think it is pretty uncontroversial that the Seax was a name applied to a whole variety of short swords and daggers.
 
Yeah, I think we're on the same page here. I didn't know they knew of all the iron, though, and that it was very advanced.
Always good to learn something new from people who know more than you :smile:
 
UnholyNighmare 说:
Yeah, I think we're on the same page here. I didn't know they knew of all the iron, though, and that it was very advanced.
Always good to learn something new from people who know more than you :smile:

Very advanced is perhaps streching it but it was totally ok for the time, and considering the quality of the ore (too little carbon content) they couldn't have done much more with it than they did as far as I understand :smile:

The iron came from bogs and wetlands where they either harvested lumps of bog ore or burned larger quantities of peat to get to the small amounts of iron in it.
 
sheesh go to sacred texts XII of the translation of beowulf and youll see


"the accursed to kill, -- no keenest blade,
no farest of falchions fashioned on earth,
could harm or hurt that hideous fiend!"
 
aurgelmir 说:
UnholyNighmare 说:
Yeah, I think we're on the same page here. I didn't know they knew of all the iron, though, and that it was very advanced.
Always good to learn something new from people who know more than you :smile:

Very advanced is perhaps streching it but it was totally ok for the time, and considering the quality of the ore (too little carbon content) they couldn't have done much more with it than they did as far as I understand :smile:

The iron came from bogs and wetlands where they either harvested lumps of bog ore or burned larger quantities of peat to get to the small amounts of iron in it.
there is another way for the best sword - iron rods buried in moist soil (so that was the access of air) and leave for 5-20 years (more years, the higher the quality of the sword)

Nasferatu 说:
sheesh go to sacred texts XII of the translation of beowulf and youll see


"the accursed to kill, -- no keenest blade,
no farest of falchions fashioned on earth,
could harm or hurt that hideous fiend!"
So what? I found on the Internet that falchion first appeared in ... Assyrians!
though it turned out that the Assyrian sword looks a bit like a translator and decided that since the right one :smile:
 
Nasferatu 说:
sheesh go to sacred texts XII of the translation of beowulf and youll see


"the accursed to kill, -- no keenest blade,
no farest of falchions fashioned on earth,
could harm or hurt that hideous fiend!"

Translation being the operative word. Beowulf wasn't written in modern English. It's written in old English, and this is pretty much the passage above:

sáwle sécan:      þone synscaðan
aénig ofer eorþan      írenna cyst
gúðbilla nán      grétan nolde
ac hé sigewaépnum      forsworen hæfde
ecga gehwylcre.

The word he's translated as "fairest of falchions" is gúðbilla, literally "good bills". Bill in old English doesn't specifically refer to the hedging tool, it simply means a cutting implement, and is here being used as a kenning for a sword.
 
Actually, the falchion is very similar to the seax. But as Spongly said, it refers to some cutting edge or so. For all we know it could be anything. Perhaps the translator thought it'd sound better with falchion, and that'd be why he/she used the word.
 
I suspect that's the case - I note he chose the word "fairest" rather than "good", and maybe felt he needed a word for a sword that alliterated with that - he seems to have tried to keep that feature of Old English poetry in the translation.
 
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