Night Fighting

[AsPaladin]

This idea draws on so already posted ideas but I believe that is unique. My idea is for a new skill called ‘Night Fighting’ (or something similar), the skill would different effect depending on the points the PC has in it.
First off night fall would have to be more menaingful. Such as every party( with the exception of a few bandits) would have to completely stop moving at night and set up a camp.
However, a party with the 'night fighting' skill would be able to function as follws:
1 point - allows movement at 50% of normal rate
2 points- allows movement at 100% of noraml rate
3 points- allows the party to attack other parties with no tactical advantage
4 points- allows the party to attack with +2 tactical advantage
5 points- allows the party to 'ambush' an enemy party. The party being ambushed would start dismounted and start surrounded by their attackers.

 

[Narcissus]

Welcome to the forums, AsPaladin.

I could see how this could really add to the game.

I think that movement at night would be better if set at 40-50% normally. Then with each point, you would gain +10% or so of movement speed. Then the next 5 - 6 skill points could be additional tactics points.

Narcissus

 

[Crazy Eyes]

Yeah dude, 50-100% is a little too much.

 

[Spartan711]

i think that the whole night thing is not made importent enuff as is. In real life come night fall horses(and riders) cant see and there for are at risk of falling/triping/wlaking off cliffs/blundring into enemys. so some one skilled in the art of night movement/fighting would DEFANITALY have the uper hand in ANY fight that goes on.

so i think that it should be a hard skill to get and even harder skill to use! maby every night fall you should get a opiton to keep moveing/set up camp and every point in skill would help the % of movement speed. Also what about tracking/spoting dont you think that night fall would hinder such things? I do

Also what about torches? a new item/item slot mabey? What if like food it gets used up over time? what about Battles with them? Were you can not see as good with out one? How bout this night fighting skill dedermaing how much you need one? ok ok ill shutup now......but what if?

 

[Kamamura]

An idea "borrowed" from Rome Total War : Barbarian Invasion, I guess?

 

[Worbah]

Spartan711, we've just been going through eyes and how they function in biology. Torches should be used only on the darkest battlefields, as you adjust to darkness. there was this wossname that forms in your eyes and is also slowly consumed when in the dark. Bright light, such as torches provide, instantly consumes the wossname (sodoprine or something), which is why you feel this tingling/pain in your eyes when, say, someone turns the lightswitch in a dark room.

I just realized that I'm not making much sense. Well besides, torchbearers are great for target practice.

 

[Volkier]

Actually, I would prefer movement stayed as it is at night, since I dunno, but I never seem to have any difficulty moving through a forest or a clearing at night.

What I WOULD imagine night fighting to be, is the inability to destinguish friend from foe. So whilst, it is already pretty hard to do this (tried to take out a bunch of khaegis raiders with my 'knights' and shot more friendlies than enemies lmao).

Any case, I suggest that at start of the combat, your VISION is affected, not the speed. However, since you can hardly see where you are going, you are going to bump into trees, obsticles and your own troops. So movement IS affected at the same time, just in a more realistic way. You vision can get better after some time (your eyes adjusting and all).
Furthermore, your troops armor should make a 'clang' sound when hit against another, or just a rock / tree, so it actually reveals your position to the enemy.

Skill wise, maybe a 'stealth' skill can be implimented for yourself and your troops as to how well they orientate in the dark, and keep the noise level down so they can ultimately have the upper advantage.

I understand though that this would not work as effectively unless combat AI is improved, (enemies dont have a radar in their head knowing where you are and vise versa), and tactics like 'stealth attacks' amongst a few other 'tweaks' are introduced. I am somewhat, not really supportive of a general proposal of 'lets move slower because its dark' idea though... Humans move slower because they cant see. Whether its because they are in the dark, or their helmet was put on facing backwords, won't make a difference :

(thats another suggestion, run up to your enemy, twist his helmet making it face backwards :)

 

[Lobos]

Volkier, I think he means to move slower on the world map, not the battle map. Since you don't have to dodge trees, rocks and iron bushes in the world map it makes sense to reduce the travelling speed of your party. In the battlemap, I think it should just be darker. Right now I can see almost as good as if it was daylight, only dimmer.

 

[maw]

good idea. "Night Fighter" skill concept can be extended, after a fashion, to "Mountaineer" skill and "Forester" skill. prolly the simplest implementation would be pluses in tactical advantages for that terrain, a bonus in troops in movement, tactics, and combat for that terrain, and movement on the world map in that terrain. if ever the idea of world map Ambushes are implemented, these skills could further benefit from setting up or detecting an ambush in those circumstances.

presently on the world map we slow down in forest - how about a reduction in movement at night. maybe implementing a night movement penalty reducing movement by 1/2 at night, then modifying it to the positive per level of skill.

as far as actual combat at night, all troops would move slower and more and dangerous cautiously - even horses would slow themselves down - based on how well they could see. if your character had any benefit for Night Fighting, it would be to see farther and move with more confidence. your troops, however, probably shouldn't benefit overall from the tactical skill but rather if it was built into their upgrade tree, which might make Bandits more valuable and dangerous as night fighters, Mountain Bandits more valuable and dangerous in mountains, and Forest Bandits more valuable in forests. good idea. maw

 

[jrawlings]

Well, if you wanna get all technical, we should also consider the moonphase. On a full moon, your natural night vision is pretty damn good. On a new moon, you'd be lucky to see 10 in front of your face. So this should have an impact on your base movement on the big map and on the battlefield.

Props to armagan on what IS done on night fighting. It is a bit more difficult to see opponents on the battlefield at night, especially in the forested battle maps, so there is some realism there.

 

[No name]

Well one more thing is that when in battle map, troops cant spot enemies easily and archers shoot less accurately.

 

[Volkier]

Why would you move slower on the world map? Its already pretty realistic that you can't spot enemies as easily, and if you are hunting you have to rely on tracking. Plus, enemies cant spot YOU as easy, so you can ride almost right next to a bunch of them, attack someone behind, and retreat under the cover of the night. This can also already be improved with skill...

And if everyone is slowed down by the night, would it make any difference? You are chased by enemies, night comes, you slow down by 2 points, enemies slow down by 2 points. So other than taking more time from going from A to B it would achieve nothing.

Bandits would be more dangerous at night, not because they have X-Ray vision, but because it would be easier to lay ambush. So once you are already in battle, it would make no difference since you KNOW you are under attack, and if your enemies are NOT bandits, but want to ambush you, they would still be more dangerous at night because once again its easier to set up ambush for un-expected passer by's. I have nothing against this, however it would be impossible to achieve with the current AI having a built-in radar which tells them where the enemies are. If AI is improved to act more realistically, then this could be discussed in more depth, but otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

Theoretically, any human, bandit or not, would be equal in similar circumstances. What normally would make 'ambushes' more deadly, is that the attackers know the grounds better. It is their 'home-team' area. If you take a bandit into your army, and half-way across the world, and THEN get ambushed, that bandit would not make a better night fighter than your other troops with same equipment and training. Just common sense :

Horses can see a lot better than humans in the night, and if they didn't, the would probably be all dead now since all the predators would have had to do, was wait untill night-fall and then attack their prey which is supposingly slower. Likewise for humans, unless its a jungle or a swamp, you can run just as fast across a field in the dark, as you can when its light.

I have no problem with night fighting be more developed should the AI become more realistic, your troops wont know where the enemy is, (and vise versa), and you (and the enemy) can both set up traps, send scouts to find the foes, use stealth attack tactics, hit and run methods, etc. Night-fighting skills and tactics would be very interesting then. However, just implimenting random night fighting tactics, without the reason they exist, would be pointless.

 

[maw]

naw, volk... i was tossing out some examples to get yer brain cells working...

i used bandits as an example cause they really have to demand in M&B except as cannon fodder. a unique trait like nightfighting might change that. i'd think, as you indicated, ambushing would be a better skill - but i would imagine if you skulked about in darkness for a living, you might be more confident fighting and moving about more than someone who wasn't.

as far as slowing down at night on the world map, i'v been about at night of foot in military maneuvers and your speed nosedives in low-light. you don't move fast when you can't see. slowing down might impact which town or mission you conduct first. and if a particular faction was not impacted by night due to the night fighting skill, they'd catch you when you didn't want them to - or you'd be able to catch up to someone who was trying to out run you if you had the skill. unless you have a road and light, get slow. that don't mean i'm a reality freak or whatever, i just put it out for some thinking. maw

ps you could try running accross a field at night as fast as daytime, but you'd be more apt to trip on chunked up ground and break an ankle unless it was a golfcourse. having run accross fields and mucked about forests at night, i know you move slower cause you cant see the small indentations, mud holes, and minor elevation changes at night.

 

[DaLagga]

I can't really think of much to add. The ideas sound pretty good, as there really does need to be a larger difference between day and night. Plus, i think days should last alot longer, maybe 2-4 times as long? Seems like they go by really fast as is.

Volkier said:

And if everyone is slowed down by the night, would it make any difference? You are chased by enemies, night comes, you slow down by 2 points, enemies slow down by 2 points. So other than taking more time from going from A to B it would achieve nothing.

Woahhhh....volkier? Was that a suggestion that put gameplay over realism? Or did someone jack your username???? Just messing.

 

[Manitas]

Volkier said:

And if everyone is slowed down by the night, would it make any difference? You are chased by enemies, night comes, you slow down by 2 points, enemies slow down by 2 points. So other than taking more time from going from A to B it would achieve nothing.

- what if B was stationary, and you wanted to get there from A unnoticed before the sunrise?
- what if the day speed was 1, do they move backwards at night if you substract 2?
- what if the night speed was a fraction of the day speed (say 75%), The speed difference between 2 moving parties would decrease, so the night would be a hard time for the pursuers, wouldnt it?.

 

[svart]

As i've said in the fatigue thread, i would like to see troops actually *need to sleep*, and the ability to camp in the open.

It's hard for me to imagine how night fighting penalities/skills will be implemented without the ability to at least camp.