Next New Big Feature after Campaign Battle Maps and Keep Battle? (W/Dev Replies)

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exactly, more immersion not more "menulord":xf-smile:
And even though the Quick Talk menu button has sped up the process of talking to a noble in a village or town it has also completely eradicated the need to ever visit said scene. I'd love a court system or a courier system where you have to interact with NPC's in order to resolve decisions, give orders, manage properties or dictate/propose policies. Depth. Immersion. Nice.
 

five bucks

Squire
And even though the Quick Talk menu button has sped up the process of talking to a noble in a village or town it has also completely eradicated the need to ever visit said scene. I'd love a court system or a courier system where you have to interact with NPC's in order to resolve decisions, give orders, manage properties or dictate/propose policies. Depth. Immersion. Nice.
It's a fine balance between
"give the player a reason to want to visit these scenes"
and
"don't annoy the player by forcing them to run through a whole scene every time they want to accomplish a basic action they'll be doing 200 times per game".

I think the happy medium is, if you want players to explore a scene, put activities in it that benefit your gameplay just enough that you don't feel like you're wasting time by exploring the scene; but aren't so important that you feel forced to do them.
If it's something important and done on a fairly regular basis, then give the player a quick talk option.

Terco's mockup was really good but I'm on the fence about the player having to load into the court scene every time they want to propose kingdom policies.

IMO, it would be best done if talking to your minister/s in person spawned you a couple steps away (so you don't have to run through the scene) and allowed you to access minor benefits you couldn't access in Quick Talk, but the major options were all in Quick Talk. So going to see your ministers in person would always feel like the player is making the choice freely, and also making one that isn't wasting their time.
 
It's a fine balance between
"give the player a reason to want to visit these scenes"
and
"don't annoy the player by forcing them to run through a whole scene every time they want to accomplish a basic action they'll be doing 200 times per game".

I think the happy medium is, if you want players to explore a scene, put activities in it that benefit your gameplay just enough that you don't feel like you're wasting time by exploring the scene; but aren't so important that you feel forced to do them.
If it's something important and done on a fairly regular basis, then give the player a quick talk option.

Terco's mockup was really good but I'm on the fence about the player having to load into the court scene every time they want to propose kingdom policies.

IMO, it would be best done if talking to your minister/s in person spawned you a couple steps away (so you don't have to run through the scene) and allowed you to access minor benefits you couldn't access in Quick Talk, but the major options were all in Quick Talk. So going to see your ministers in person would always feel like the player is making the choice freely, and also making one that isn't wasting their time.

Interesting! You are right though. I can recall a moment earlier in the EA where Workshops could only be bought/adjusted by going into the scene. I thought the Menu-option was added later, based on community feedback. Or I think that was it, not 100% sure.

Warframe is a completely different game to BL but which I also play alot. You have, sortof comparable, scenes with NPC's you want to talk to. You first have to load into the scene before you are given the option to Fast Travel. But you can also sprint it. Whats faster depends on the speed of your computer (loading time). But either fast travel or running, you go into the scene. Which isn't a bad thing because the scenes are absolutely stunning.

It's a compromise, but a workable one I think.
 

Rubinsaw

Recruit
It's a fine balance between
"give the player a reason to want to visit these scenes"
and
"don't annoy the player by forcing them to run through a whole scene every time they want to accomplish a basic action they'll be doing 200 times per game".
Agreed to some extent but can't help but feel introducing "quick-chat" in the first place might of been a mistake that can never be gone back on now. I appreciate the convenience of some when handing in quests sure but imagine this system in any other massive world rpg. Who cares if you have to walk or ride your horse through a city, thats part of every RPG ever! No matter how many hundreds of times you have to make these journeys, imagine never having to run through the alleys of Novigrad to get/hand in quest in Witcher. Fast travelling straight into the face of Ulfric Stormcloak in Skyrim. It might be slightly tedious to some but it's what makes iconic locations iconic, that you learn them so indepth it feels like a home of sorts. The music hits you, the sights and sounds combine to make you feel nostalgic about where your spending your time.

Different genre but the iconic cities in every game..Imagine instantly fast travelling to NPC's in Stormwind in WOW, or Goldshire. Or in Runescape, being able to teleport directly to NPC from the very start, no running through lumbridge cow pen or anything. Would you really add a direct NPC teleport action to these games if it was possible? (IK you can somewhat in runescape). There is no doubt the quick-chat helps but I think it is part of the slippery slope to why there is very little immersion or feeling of iconic locations & belonging in the world as it stands, beyond being a great large scale battle simulator.

I think the happy medium is, if you want players to explore a scene, put activities in it that benefit your gameplay just enough that you don't feel like you're wasting time by exploring the scene; but aren't so important that you feel forced to do them.
This is a fantastic post actually, +1 on that I like everything you wrote and this should get more traction. These are the types of random events you'd expect to see in an MMO that encourages engagement in areas that would otherwise not see any. My only concern is the cities and towns that were given so much attention and detail, shouldnt be areas of low engagement. Making the game more menulord instead of having to ride through towns and BELONG to the world is hurting the fantasy and game as a whole. If TW or modders were able to add this functionality you described above though, that would go someways to helping.
Warframe is a completely different game to BL but which I also play alot. You have, sortof comparable, scenes with NPC's you want to talk to. You first have to load into the scene before you are given the option to Fast Travel. But you can also sprint it.
Warframe player here too, that is quite a good idea and slightly more of a comprimise that might not overly upset the people who are more infavour of the menulord style of city and town interaction. What you've desribed is as close to a nice comprimise as i've seen.
 
Agreed to some extent but can't help but feel introducing "quick-chat" in the first place might of been a mistake that can never be gone back on now. I appreciate the convenience of some when handing in quests sure but imagine this system in any other massive world rpg.
You would be wrong about this. It's a problem since the original Mount and Blade and this debate has been won by the "quick menu" side many times. If Taleworlds didn't have it, literally every player, except few extreme RPers. would have modded it in. It's about giving the player a choice and that's a sacred principle.
 

Rungsted93

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
After keep battles and terrain-based battle maps, If they were to release a major feature per 1.6.X (which will never happen,) my wishlist would be:

1.6.2 - Spear bracing, with troop trees reorganized to make it fit in well as a mechanic.

1.6.3 - Kingdom Court: When you start a kingdom, your first fief houses a Court (which can be moved). Fiefless nobles visit your Court to offer to join your faction, for a price. You have a Minister there who tells you about Issues forming in the kingdom (which with Bannerlord's parties system would allow you to dispatch companions to deal with them). This would be a major improvement on how frustrating it is for the player to run around the whole world and do everything themselves as a ruler. Was in Warband.

1.6.4 - Minor Faction bases. These were shown in the 2016 demo, and looked kind of like bandit hideouts for minor factions. It would be good if minor factions had a permanent location to hire their own troops and for the player to make contact with them.

1.6.5 - Feasts. The ability for nobles and the player to hold feasts during peacetime, which raise Influence, increase relations, and give you the opportunity to talk to lots of nobles at the same time, along with the immersion benefits. Was in Warband.

1.6.6 - Deserter enemies (military-grade bandits) spawned from low morale parties, Manhunters that spawn in areas of high bandit activity and have a recruitable troop tree focused on blunt weapons, training peasant women into Sword Sisters, Book Merchants who sell skillbooks, Hitmen/Belligerent Drunks who attack you in settlements, all of which were in Warband.

1.6.7 - Lord Duels. The dialogue option to insult a noble and start a duel, or Lords who dislike you occasionally challenging you to a duel. This would return the Denounce Lord/Defend Honor quests from Warband.

1.6.8 - Pre-battle army placement in field battles.

1.6.9 - Criminal Enterprise: TW has mentioned this in the past and still advertises "make a Criminal Empire!" on the Steam store page, but we have still not seen them. In theory, you can take over alleys from gangs to start a "criminal enterprise" of your own there (black market?) which works just like a workshop, but with much higher profit, at the cost of raising your criminal rating, and having to fight off other gangs every now and then (implemented).
With this feature, alleys would finally have a purpose.

1.7 - Secessions/Civil Wars: The larger a kingdom gets and the more vassals it has, the more likely one of its AI vassals is (if they have low relations with the ruler, are different culture, or are devious) to try and convince other AI vassals to secede with their fiefs, starting a civil war.
Warband had civil wars, though the player had to kick them off. If TW had time to add AI-driven secession, it would give the player an endless source of enemies in the end-game (making the dynastic mechanics relevant), and solve the problem of faction imbalance and boring diplomacy in the late-game, by reintroducing defeated cultures as breakaway factions.

That would be all the major features I'd want. Obviously the game's existing features would still need improving, but the content base would have succeeded in delivering on TW's feature promises and making a great sequel to Warband.
Some really good suggestions!
 
1.6.7 - Lord Duels. The dialogue option to insult a noble and start a duel, or Lords who dislike you occasionally challenging you to a duel. This would return the Denounce Lord/Defend Honor quests from Warband.

1.6.8 - Pre-battle army placement in field battles.
I like all of these. Though, one thing I'd personally like to see is a hybrid of these two: the option to nominate/challenge the enemy army's champion to a pre-battle duel (perhaps only a viable option if both sides are actual "armies" and both over a given size, say, 250, or lead by a realm's top lord (e.g. Derthert), so it doesn't always happen), with the winning side gaining a morale buff, and some clan Renown (if it was a clan member that won), and the losing side's troops gaining a morale debuff.
  • You'd pre-place your army and then, if both sides accept to duel, pick an elite unit - or companion / clan-member - as a champion, as would the other side.
  • They square off between the two sides and after the fight, the loser is dragged back in a cutscene with the battle starting soonafter.
    • Most of the code and animations should already exist for this - based on MP duels and the current hideout boss mechanics.
    • Perhaps lord personalities could play in to this, too,
      • with you (and "dishonourable" lords) able to not honour the "champion-tradition" of letting the victor be dragged back. Not honouring this could trigger an early start to battle and possibly confer an advantage.
      • or honourable/vein lords or lords without holdings / low renown (but with heirs) nominating themselves as champion (giving you a good way to kill them "for free", whilst giving them favour with their liege if they win).
      • This is probably excessive, though it would be cool, as I don't think too much really ties in to character personalities right now?
 
It's a fine balance between
"give the player a reason to want to visit these scenes"
and
"don't annoy the player by forcing them to run through a whole scene every time they want to accomplish a basic action they'll be doing 200 times per game".

I think the happy medium is, if you want players to explore a scene, put activities in it that benefit your gameplay just enough that you don't feel like you're wasting time by exploring the scene; but aren't so important that you feel forced to do them.
If it's something important and done on a fairly regular basis, then give the player a quick talk option.

Terco's mockup was really good but I'm on the fence about the player having to load into the court scene every time they want to propose kingdom policies.

IMO, it would be best done if talking to your minister/s in person spawned you a couple steps away (so you don't have to run through the scene) and allowed you to access minor benefits you couldn't access in Quick Talk, but the major options were all in Quick Talk. So going to see your ministers in person would always feel like the player is making the choice freely, and also making one that isn't wasting their time.
Everyone will have a different opinion on where to put the line between tedious interactions that should be accessible via menu and meaningful interactions that are only accessible via npc’s in scenes. I for one like the fact that I can quickly sell my loot, ransom prisoners and get some new recruits with a few mouse clicks. I don’t have a lot of time to play, so I don’t like wasting it on tedious task that happen very often.
But I personally miss the immersion in the world. I would like to see actions that you don’t do very often restricted to NPC interactions like setting kingdom policies, declaring war/peace, managing city projects, diplomacy actions and using a messenger system.
 

Rubinsaw

Recruit
You would be wrong about this. It's a problem since the original Mount and Blade and this debate has been won by the "quick menu" side many times. If Taleworlds didn't have it, literally every player, except few extreme RPers. would have modded it in. It's about giving the player a choice and that's a sacred principle.
Thanks for providing insight. Don't you think it might be better out, and modded in as opposed to being default though? I agree with being given choice but once you've been allowed to skip a basic process like riding through a town/city to reach x NPC/resource, no one would reasonably cede that knowing it's already been given. For context I do think some stuff should be easily clickable for menial tasks like recruit troops, sell prisoner, quicksell loot, but other more important stuff should never be a menu.

I do really like @five bucks ideas about things to do in cities but from what i've seen so far I feel that only modders will add that level of specificity unless something is pulled out of the bag last minute by TW.

They will probably be in "crunch" mode after they come back from holiday with a lot of pressure I imagine.
 
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Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Thanks for providing insight. Don't you think it might be better out, and modded in as opposed to being default though? I agree with being given choice but once you've been allowed to skip a basic process like riding through a town/city to reach x NPC/resource, no one would reasonably cede that knowing it's already been given. For context I do think some stuff should be easyily clickable for menial tasks, but other more important stuff should never be a menu.
After 2000 hours of BL, I would rather exit out of the game and play something else than ever load into another town or hall scene again.
 

five bucks

Squire
I do really like @five bucks ideas about things to do in cities but from what i've seen so far I feel that only modders will add that level of specificity unless something is pulled out of the bag last minute by TW.

They will probably be in "crunch" mode after they come back from holiday with a lot of pressure I imagine.
You're probably right. I'd be fine with stuff like that being left to modders, though, if TW just added proper street battles in, since that would get a good use out of street scenes.
 
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