New Wave reinforcement system

[Flesson19]

Can someone explain why this mechanic was 'needed" in the game. I find the whole thing just junk when we could just fight the entire battle at once. The one thing that sucks is if the wave ends and your at 19% then your forced to sim the battle. Why, can some dev tell me why this was needed at all when the old system was just fine.
@Duh_TaleWorlds

 

[BigFat]

I honestly wouldn't hate it if it gave the AI a chance to retreat when losing a battle and actually flee your army to regroup but good heavens do I hate fighting 3 battles against tier 2 troops who flee immediately anyway when it could have just been 1.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

They also need to stop making us fight routed enemies. They ROUTED, they don't want to fight. I'm sure this is just a copy pasted code issue from the keep battle system though.

 

[Bluko88]

Can someone explain why this mechanic was 'needed" in the game. I find the whole thing just junk when we could just fight the entire battle at once. The one thing that sucks is if the wave ends and your at 19% then your forced to sim the battle. Why, can some dev tell me why this was needed at all when the old system was just fine.
@Duh_TaleWorlds

I think the point is so you have a slightly more realistic reinforcement system, where you effectively get a "2nd" formation of reinforcements. Which okay is probably how a battle would work.

Though I feel like it punishes attackers for doing well. Not sure it's entirely to blame for the "rounds" of battles, if I remember it was changed more for sieges so that when A.I. morale breaks, reinforcements stop coming in. Again if the A.I. actually surrendered or retreated when it has clearly lost, this wouldn't be so bad. But re-fighting a battle you already "won" is very annoying and screws up final score.


I much prefer a trickle reinforcement system, as soon as a unit dies a reinforcement spawns in at your side of the map border. Something fixed, and something the player can understand. And the max # of troops you can spawn in is determined by the initial strength ratio. This should ideally encourage player/A.I. to fight in middle of the map because 1) Getting too aggressive over extends your lines, makes it take too long for reinforcements to show up 2) Being too defensive risks you not being able to form up properly

TW seems to have this unfounded fear that spawn camping is going to be a thing. Never in my 100s of hours have I seen anything I would call true spawn camping, I mean I've seen reinforcements get attacked not long after spawning in (mostly cause they pulled back near border) - but it's not like units all amass near the border and insta-kill everything. Honestly for that to happen would be a true feat.

But TW loves to spawn units out of thin air, right in front of the player, because that looks great! I mean yes it's a game, they have to spawn somewhere, but do it at the border where it makes sense/is tolerable.


Oh well I'll take this over the old old system where units spawned on top each. Eff me that was absolutely terrible. Should see how my infamous save fares these days provided I can get it working in release here.

 

[bm01]

I haven't played enough with the new system to know how it performs, but the old one definitely wasn't fine.

 

[Bluko88]

They also need to stop making us fight routed enemies. They ROUTED, they don't want to fight. I'm sure this is just a copy pasted code issue from the keep battle system though.

A.I. "I can break these cuffs!"

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

Can someone explain why this mechanic was 'needed" in the game. I find the whole thing just junk when we could just fight the entire battle at once. The one thing that sucks is if the wave ends and your at 19% then your forced to sim the battle. Why, can some dev tell me why this was needed at all when the old system was just fine.
@Duh_TaleWorlds

The reinforcement wave system is primarily aimed at players with lower battle sizes that don't want to auto-resolve the entire encounter, but do want a built-in limit for the mission to control the time spent. The old system is still there (choose "unlimited waves", though I think it defaults to this anyways?) so you should be able to pick the option that suits you best.

 

[JunKeteer]

The reinforcement wave system is primarily aimed at players with lower battle sizes that don't want to auto-resolve the entire encounter, but do want a built-in limit for the mission to control the time spent. The old system is still there (choose "unlimited waves", though I think it defaults to this anyways?) so you should be able to pick the option that suits you best.

Ie. console players. TBF, yes the settings are there still for unlimited reinforcements. The main issue with this still is how the reinforcements come/trickle in that still hasn't been solved.
Even in siege defenses, I'm starting to literally see enemies spawn right at the gate right in front of my face vs trickling in from their camp.

 

[SpartanBG]

Ie. console players. TBF, yes the settings are there still for unlimited reinforcements. The main issue with this still is how the reinforcements come/trickle in that still hasn't been solved.
Even in siege defenses, I'm starting to literally see enemies spawn right at the gate right in front of my face vs trickling in from their camp.

there are certain spawn points i believe, but once you pushed to certain place after the wall the spawn point changes place. Also i'm not sure if consol players have that option, but just change it to lower count of reinforcements.

And no, lower systems mean mine for example an 8-year-old machine with one Video Card upgrade in 2016.
Fx-8350 and 1060 6 GB edition. Pretty sure current consoles are better than this

And if your computer is good just pump up the maximum battle size, you won't see that many reinforcements happening since you'll have a greater count of troops in the scene

 

[Totalgarbage]

I honestly wouldn't hate it if it gave the AI a chance to retreat when losing a battle and actually flee your army to regroup but good heavens do I hate fighting 3 battles against tier 2 troops who flee immediately anyway when it could have just been 1.

Exactly, I think that the new reinforcement system would be salvageable (and imo a straight up upgrade to the previous mechanic) if the AI actually reacted accordingly after a battle ends due to running out of reinforcement waves.

@Duh_TaleWorlds This becomes an especially blatant problem in siege defence after you rout or defeat the enemy. After you're "victorious" in the first onslaught, all of the enemy's melee siege engines will get destroyed (even if they weren't before), but since they won't react accordingly to this situation, instead of going back to (re)building siege engines, they will be attacking again despite not having a ram and/or siege towers and therefore a massive disadvantage, and will get stomped as a result. This alone turns a near impossible or a close fight to an easy win.

Oh and also on an unrelated note, if you're waiting in a settlement during the siege set-up phase as a defender and your kingdom declares war/peace with a different faction from the ones besieging you, due to a bug, the game kicks you out of the settlement while the siege set up is still going on.

On another unrelated note, in order for the battles to be not exploitable, we need to have casualties when we retreat from a field battle or siege offence after units have started engaging each other like we did in Warband.