New Stewardship skills...I wonder

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...why the perks turns weapons into troops XP at all?!
I mean I understand: give the men their share of the plunder, right. Sounds immersive as well. But:

- shouldn't it rather raise troop morale (troops with loot are happy troops) -> giving hands
- shouldn't it rather reduce wages (pay with plunder instead) -> paid in promise

Converting useless stuff into XP is rather...'totally balanced' as the Spiffing Brit would say.
I can totally see us speeding through missions like 'train the peasants' by just giving them loot from one or two looters encounters or just doing the 'just take that helmet I won at the arena' and: presto!

We already have enough ways of farming XP for troops I think. We are still lacking decent diplomacy, a useful rogue skill tree and accessible medic/siege/athletics perks as the grind is still strong in those ones.

Just my 5 cents
 
Yeah, but they are all grindy, so this is a good change. It also acts as a soft nerf to loot income because now there is an opportunity cost to just selling it all.
Maybe make both skills be allowed to provide armor and weapon, and then one skill to provide + party morale, then the other exp.
 
Well, in that case I would like a moderator to move this into the suggestions forum and change the title to
'Suggestion: change the way the perks 'giving hands' and 'paid in promise' work

@Apocal: I see the problem that those XP-giving things are mostly located in the stewardship tree already and making this tree even more useful than others.
 
I like it the way it is, it's a step in the right direction of adding some actually useful perks and abilities. Using your garrisons and stash to streamline this effect, by just taking out a stack if recruits and a stack of loot and turning them in to useful t2 /3 units is close to the power level of the Trainer skill in mid game of warband, where you could take out stack of soldiers before midnight to gain trainer exp without having to drag them around all the time.

Not to mention it's a money sink and something we've really been needing! A big criticism I've had was that you can get all this loot/money but there's nothing to do with it to turn in into any advantage or utility.... well now you can! Just the convenience of not having to go looter chasing if I don't want to is really great!

I could see some limits added to it though, such as: Only tier 1-3 gets the full effect or even it only works for tier 1-3, meaning t4-6 troops can't be leveled with it.

I don't like the other exp perks as they're very weak and passive. I don't even notice if I have then or not. But helping hands/paid in promise gives me something I proactively do and that works for me. This is the type of thing I'm always asking for "give me something to do" not just a few +numbers here and there I won't notice or miss.

I see the problem that those XP-giving things are mostly located in the stewardship tree already and making this tree even more useful than others.
That problem needs be solved by making the weak skills more useful, NOT holding back good abilities. As it is, you have about 1/3 dead or redundant skills, 1/3 that have some okay perks but aren't very good overall, 1/3 good skills.

I can totally see us speeding through missions like 'train the peasants' by just giving them loot from one or two looters encounters or just doing the 'just take that helmet I won at the arena' and: presto!
So? You just ram them into looters a couple times anyways! It's good because it give you an option! Say I have a big army and can't chase looters but I want to do this quest for my village, now I have an option to get it done (I have loots from big battles) where before it would have been very inconvenient.

We already have enough ways of farming XP for troops I think
No we had 1 'way', ram recruits into looters (or something), now we have 2.

We are still lacking decent diplomacy, a useful rogue skill tree and accessible medic/siege/athletics perks as the grind is still strong in those ones.
True but that's getting into elephant test model waters: Just because they work on one thing doesn't mean we lost something else or that we won't get still. I know, we all wish it was subway or build a bear and we could just "no not THAT one, THAT one and double that too!"
 

BigFat

Regular
I like it the way it is, it's a step in the right direction of adding some actually useful perks and abilities. Using your garrisons and stash to streamline this effect, by just taking out a stack if recruits and a stack of loot and turning them in to useful t2 /3 units is close to the power level of the Trainer skill in mid game of warband, where you could take out stack of soldiers before midnight to gain trainer exp without having to drag them around all the time.
I agree with your whole post and I could definitely see it getting a bit of an adjustment. but it's refreshing to get a perk that has an actual noticeable effect. I really missed having Trainer and even taking all the %xp perks I could was unnoticeable. I would love to see some other perks made better to compete rather than seeing this one reduced into uselessness.
 

Maggot Toes

Veteran
When you upgrade troops, they both get better skills and better equipment. It kind of fits role-play to have loot help speed the upgrade process.
 

Lesbosisles

Knight
Yeah, but they are all grindy, so this is a good change. It also acts as a soft nerf to loot income because now there is an opportunity cost to just selling it all.
Agreed. Chasing looters for the 1000 time is not only boring, but also irritating. I prefer the "Giving hands" stay as it is now.
 
I think it's more than great to have a new way to level troops, and a reason to use loot for something other than money. The perks are not overpowered, at least in early to mid game. If you use your loot early on to level your troops, you will not only be paying what would be thousands in terms of denars, but also pay more when actually upgrading the troops, AND then pay even more through the daily wages of said troops. In that sense, I found that I prefer selling my loot rather than using the equipment on them. This same effect you would have seen if you played Vlandia with the past culture bonus (+20% troop exp from battles). I would never upgrade my troops early, maybe only one tier at most, because the costs of always upgrading your troops far outweigh the benefits.

For these particular perks, even when you are good economically, trust me, this will still feel like a big hit to your wallet if you do it too often. I was clan tier 4, I had -600 wages, and the 3 workshops that I had at the time got me somewhere to -100 daily. At that point you would still rather sell the loot than just use it for troop upgrades for no reason.

And late game, doesn't hiring clans cost literal millions of denars? Again I don't imagine you want to do this all the time. All in all, I feel it's really great having a new "money-sink", like we have been asking for before, and also a more active way to train your troops! Troops are very expendable, and currently a tier 5 troop isn't that much different from a tier 3. I wouldn't even say it's worth the money. At the moment, upgrading troops is mostly for roleplay purposes I feel like, for example I like having my Vlandian sergeants, they look cool. Do I need them? Not really, I'd be better off with an army of crossbowmen. But then, training crossbowmen is quite easy to begin with. So I feel the perks benefit infantry more (which have more mortality, unless they also have throwables, so I prefer not nerfing this perk in the way suggested above - "tier+3 troops don't benefit from it..." honestly, don't do that. With the leadership perk that pretty much upgrades most of your recruits to tier 2 from the get-go, the perk would really be useless. And also, the early tiers require way less experience to level your troops than the later tiers. Don't touch the lovely perk!).

Training your troops by killing looters all the time got really old, please don't bring me back to that! I'd rather choose to suffer through a 100% trader playthrough and then abuse the hell out of the new stewardship perks than continue doing that. And if you have the patience to level trading so much you honestly deserve it. I didn't even use the perks much, but just having them there as an option gives me immeasurable mental comfort, knowing that I won't be stuck all game farming looters for experience.

Turning these great perks into morale or reduced wages would make them very useless... For one, you are trading loot (=money) for reduced wages? Doesn't make any sense, it has no practical use. And morale no thank you, I'd rather defeat a party or raise my leadership, + have some other steward perks that do this, + treat my men in the tavern to some booze and wenches like good old times (= another money sink for the purpose of raising morale).

Don't ruin a good thing! The perks are genius, and we can finally say goodbye to our looter PTSD from farming them so much for the first time during Bannerlord development. I will never forget their faces! They're haunting my dreams every night! Take my loot now!
 
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