new class for big bows

[slavetrader]

yes so I was thinking whilst facing some bowmen.
how 'bout making a new weaponclass for those really big longbows (like those the english used). when you think of it, it makes sense. they definitally couldn't be used mounted. in fact you probably couldn't move at all when trying to hit something with it. i think this alone should set them apart from other bows, enough so that they could be called a separate weaponclass.

at the moment the game has no bow that is even close to the size I'm talking about = create this new bow. now im guessing that the longbow didn't use the same size arrows as a nomad bow, for instance, so perhaps this would lead to a whole new missile too.

it still wouldn't be very historically accurate since these bows were used to create the ''rain of arrows'' thing we all prbly remember from braveheart not to fire directly at a single opponent.

but i still wouldn't mind seeing them

 

[miruim]

The rain of arrows is the premier function of the bow in armies. I don't think mounted archery was too popular.

 

[BobG]

I agree that long bows and short bows should be separate categories. While we're at it, being able to line up your archers and yell "Fire!" to get the "rain of arrows" effect would be cool, and I imagine not too hard to implement. But one enhancement at a time.

 

[Aethelwyn]

The rain of arrows is the premier function of the bow in armies. I don't think mounted archery was too popular.

Only true in Europe. On the Eurasian steppe, horse archers were king (ofttimes literally). Not only did these horse archers cause huge problems for Europe when they invated (Huns and Mongols particularly), but neighboring civilisations tended to copy at least some of the key aspects of their fighting style, just in order to survive. The Turks are a prime example of this, though even the Russians tended to prefer mounted archers over lancers and other troops into the 1500's.

Mounted archery has deep roots in Japan as well, and in fact they developed a kind of longbow specifically for use on horseback. The upper arm was significantly longer than the lower one. This not only facilitated managing bows as tall as their wielders while riding, but catered to their foot-archers' preference of kneeling to fire.

 

[teike]

Another interesting bow would be that huge one that was said was able to break thru any armour.

The archer had to lay down and hold it with its feet, then he put a huge (from foot to middle chest I would guess 1.2meters) sturdy arrow on it.
Well it wasn't very precise but against many units, precision is not a big problem

Its range and impact was amazing.

And... I dont remember its name, was a TV documentary long ago

 

[Ingolifs]

This greek Gastraphetes sounds somewhat similar (yay for sibilance!)

You put your belly on the curved part and plowed it into the ground and used your weight somehow to draw the string back.

 

[Sir Saladin]

Bracing that against your belly and pulling the string back probably was hard on the back but I suppose most of those guys didn't live very long anyway.

 

[Maelstorm]

Horse archery was kind of the main concept for Middle-Asian people who lived on steppes.

For the old Turks, starting from Huns if memory serves, there is a saying, "Horse, woman and weapon".
Many words related to horse in Russian and some European languages are taken from Turkish language since they had so many words. Horses were very important back then. So mounted archery came natural to them.

That is why Khergits always remind me of Huns

 

[Mokurei]

If you must know, it's a fact that those "really big longbows" were used on horseback, against the French about a week before agincourt and were used with ignited arrows, and they were sent in to set fire to villages. This was with the 150lb+ draw weight warbows, the exact same that they used about a week later in agincourt, which was a very notable battle in which the power of the English longbow was demonstrated.

There shouldn't be a new bow class, but if there *has* to be, they should rename the damn warbow in this game, it doesn't look a thing like an english warbow (the more "correct" term for the english longbow, since recreational longbows of around 50-60lb draw weight were used at the time, mostly by royalty and wealthy.) Although I guess you could make the bow really, really inaccurate on horseback, as it was never used on people, just haystacks and houses ^_^

They should make the mongolian/steppe/khergit bows more accurate on horseback than normal bows, too.

Aethelwyn is right about Kyudo though, the upper limb (not arm ) was 2/3 of the bow, the lower limb was just a 1/3 of the bow. I've yet to try one of those, looks very interesting.

 

[Destichado]

damn it, and just as I was about to weigh in and look smart.

The new guy's absolutly right. By the 14th century, almost all the english archers were mounted. They didn't normally *fight* mounted, but we have records that they did on occasion.

So, Mokurei... shall I take it that you read Cromwell's Grail Quest/hellequin series?

 

[Mokurei]

Well, no, but I'm a huge fan of the English longbow and it's history, and I'm also the UK #1 Field champ with longbow so...I do archery a lot also, and my longbow is made by (imo) the finest bowyer in the world atm

EDIT: I also forgot to mention, cavalry archers were what saved the english from death while crossing a river, relatively near Crecy. Pretty uber, showed the devastation of the mounted longbowmen vs a group of crossbowmen.

EDIT 2: Destichado is right, most archers by the 14th C were mounted, and mounted archer = higher wages, so it was a very attractive job. A guy using a 150-180lb draw weight warbow on horseback also had a "coolness" factor almost similar to that of the first Matrix film

 

[Destichado]

IMPRESSIVE

In which case you'll enjoy the series, by Bernard Cromwell, for the same reason I did -because he gets almost everything right.
You'll love Archer's Tale, like Vagabond and ought to skip Heretic.

 

[Fluffy The Hamster]

Mokurei, your lucky. I love archery, but i'v only used a bow once. .

 

[Yoshiboy]

everyone loves archery, and i thought i was not bad the few times i tried it.

 

[MMad]

Aethelwyn is right about Kyudo though, the upper limb (not arm ) was 2/3 of the bow, the lower limb was just a 1/3 of the bow. I've yet to try one of those, looks very interesting.

I don't know much about archery, but I'm pretty sure that kind of bow is called a yumi, while Kyudo is the art of archery, and a modern martial art, kind of like Iaido.

 

[okiN]

MMad wins a prize.

 

[Mokurei]

Hehe yes, that's the name. I had completely forgotten the actual name of the bow, all i could remember was that the art of it is Kyudo. Couple books about the topic infact, I might buy one and give it a read. Destichado, ty for the links Fluffy, I'm sure you'll get a chance to shoot again soon, but you might have to look for it, rather than wait for it to come to you Yoshi, I'm sure you pwned at archery, take it up imo, who knows how far you'll go with it you might go further than you think

MMad wins this cookie! :O

O <----Cookie!

EDIT: Ooh speaking of field archery, I have a shoot on tomorrow on a brand new course (well, I should say I have a shoot on today, it's 1:15am now ) but anyways, I hope to see more bows introduced in tatsumaki, dammit! ^_^ Btw, anyone tried Kyudo?

 

[MMad]

Yay, cookie!
/me does the cookie dance

 

[vanedor]

Archery is for cowards

Nothing as beautiful as a charge of heavily armored knights. Those damn english just ruined to good old classical medieval time with things such as professional army, their longbow, etc.

Yeah, I'm french(-canadian).

I agree with the person suggestion that large bows should not be used mounted or if they are, they should be really not accurate.

 

[Questor]

While English yeomen did ride horses, they reportedly were more like dragoons than light cavalry/mounted archers.

I wouldn't mind longbows [and warbows] to be restricted to footmen [or drawn with stiff penalties], as long as lighter crossbows are made fully functional from horseback.

Maybe longbow Draw requirements could be raised [alongwith max damage?], so chars have to specialise more to use them.

Currently, any bow is deadly in the hand of a skilled archer - heavier bows being simply better than lighter ones.
It would be fun to differentiate them more, so as to make them more suited to different tactical roles.