Never thought I will complain to endless warfare 1.5.7

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ratschbumm

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Yeah, conspiracy quest war.

I unified the Empire under the Dragon Banner, and Battania, Aserai and Horseaites Khuzaites started a war against me.

Firstly, I want to say about unclear targets of this quest. Three balance bars and what with them? I entered the war with full garrisons of my clan's 6 cities, 800k, 2500 inf, 5 clans + 2 mercs, and own party of 220 bucellarii and 60-70 cataphracts so I swiftly gathered 1500 men army in Rhotae and went to the Battania territory. After I destroyed 1700 men Caladog's Army (and kill him) and other two lesser armies, captured two cities and two castles I had +33% percent on the War Progress Bar. What I supposed to do for 100? Wipe them from the face of the Earth? If yes - please make it clear - "Destroy them no matter what". Battania at this moment had 3 wars, and additionally had 4 with minor factions, and now they lost third of territory, and half of military. So if they need a moment to cry for mercy - this was right time. They didn't. But after a couple of castles and few other actions, like raiding and destroying some warbands I see the window to make peace. Ok, no problem.

Errrrr, the quest and progress bar did not disappear. Perhaps it was not the end of the war which matched to the quest goal. But how should I know this? Dear dev team, if there should be something special, let us know that. Do not hesitate to write 'Quest completed if you see enemy king is bending knee', or 'You PERSONALLY will see option "Our realms should make peace" in the talk again' or something else.

Ok than, Battania was "pacified" and I went to the East Front making reinforcements and gathering additional lords with their parties. It was about time, my friend Monchug with 2200 men army was going to Saneopa, so I crushed him. 11 noble prisoners only for me. Returned to Amitatys, dropped the prisoners, disband some lords for replenishment, add own troops to the clan parties, and wend the fields again. Got Phycaon, Argoron and few castles, destroyed few armies, and made peace. Also gave a great whoopin' to Unquid.

Forgot to say, West Empire declared war against me too, not as part of coalition. But because it was happening mostly around Ortysia, where Aserai's and mine lords already were shoving sharpened pieces of iron to each other, I left it to them. Then I got from Aserai low-garrisoned Onira, Danustika, Syronea, Rasih, Quasira, and castles I didn't even count. To this moment, I exhausted my army to 450 men and Battania declared new war. I made peace with Aserai, and complete the first circle exiting Aserai territory near Ortysia. Replenished in Zeonica, and with my clan parties invaded to Battania. Next I routinely took few cities and castles which was with very small garrison, aaaand...

Khusaites declared war. To this moment I had 2,2 millions of denars from loot, added two or three new clans to kingdom, 2k of influence and lost half of high-tier units. So I left Battanian war to the lords, then replenished in Poros and went again to the meet with my dear friend Monchug. Of course he already got all my previous acquisitions, because their graces m'lords did not give even a little **** about garrisoning and defense. Of course I beat them and their minor armies, again acquired Onira, Danustica, Phycaon, Syronea and few castles. But my lords CANNOT hold them by default, but I need them to make progress in wars.

My vassals also do not want to end wars, they very satisfied by the current course of war and with actual separation of duties. I fight and make the progress, they running as junked up roaches without any real output, but they definetely feel that we are winning (we are not). In fact, we are in the strategic dead end own to gameplay limitation. And I started to savescum to not let Aserai enter the war again. I feel no guilt. I'm tired. I killed 8-10 enemy nobles during this war (in battles), and it seems that the war will continue until I kill another 30-40 and then will be just not enough to make infinite carousel of next day escaping and immediately returning lords, behaving like locust. I really want to break the game and start to execute everyone I cought.

tl;dr.

Game year and a half of indefinite war, where it's simply impossible to hold assets which are needed to push that *****ng quest bars to +100. Lords in my army give 10-20 troops total to newly captured city, and I understand them, I am also not eager to give troops to the feud that will be given to other vassal. But after assigning fief to the lord he unable to organize the defense even from 100 men party of enemy. I personally cannot and have no desire to give 300-500 troops to every city I captured. At least, give us a possibility to quickly replenish militia for money, or pin some lazy bastards, our lords, to their new fiefs until they have descent garrison, or something like this. And let captured lord sit in prison longer, and returning to war after 2 weeks, no less.

Please make clear description what are the targets to achieve to end conspiracy wars. Redesign them if needed. It also be useful to make single progress bar to "Conspiracy War". As it stated in quest tab, this is a coalition war, so it would be realistic that defeating one coalition member will break it. Or just if the whole coalition was damaged enough instead of per-faction ratio. In fact, now I need simply to destroy three most powerful factions in the game. Littlie thing, nothing to speak about.



PS - I am still receiving letters from Istiana about caravans, bandits and other ****.
 
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I'm not trying to contradict or argue with you, but I just want to say that currently, any kind of kingdom you make or join becomes endless, unrelenting war :sad:
 
Game year and a half of indefinite war, where it's simply impossible to hold assets which are needed to push that *****ng quest bars to +100. Lords in my army give 10-20 troops total to newly captured city, and I understand them, I am also not eager to give troops to the feud that will be given to other vassal. But after assigning fief to the lord he unable to organize the defense even from 100 men party of enemy. I personally cannot and have no desire to give 300-500 troops to every city I captured. At least, give us a possibility to quickly replenish militia for money, or pin some lazy bastards, our lords, to their new fiefs until they have descent garrison, or something like this. And let captured lord sit in prison longer, and returning to war after 2 weeks, no less.

Please make clear description what are the targets to achieve to end conspiracy wars. Redesign them if needed. It also be useful to make single progress bar to "Conspiracy War". As it stated in quest tab, this is a coalition war, so it would be realistic that defeating one coalition member will break it. Or just if the whole coalition was damaged enough instead of per-faction ratio. In fact, now I need simply to destroy three most powerful factions in the game. Littlie thing, nothing to speak about.



PS - I am still receiving letters from Istiana about caravans, bandits and other ****.
that is the exact scenario I was in to the T, including continuing to receive conspiracy quest. it was grindy as heck. as time went on the solution became painfully clear. my vassals just weren't strong enough to fight without my help. sadly, the only remedy for this was to donate my own troops into newly acquired settlement and gift my own settlement to my vassals :sad:. in other Mount&Blade games the player could solo entire wars, but in Bannerlord there are so many clans that even if the player destroys an entire army a new 1000+ troop enemy army will replaace it. increasing the player's personal strength has the side affect of weakening your vassals.
after gifting my settlements and troops to my vassals we were slowly able to push back the enemy. now that my vassals are strong I hardly have to get involved in battle and sieges anymore.
 
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ratschbumm

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
vassals we were slowly able to push back the enemy
Yes, but the problem still exists, it's so slow. I mentioned in my post that I had some progress, and I'm able to continue pressing in the manner of Sidor Kovpak, a hero of WWII
During the Great Patriotic War of 1941–45, Kovpak was the commander of a Putivl’ partisan detachment, then of the large partisan unit of Sumy Oblast, and a member of the underground Central Committee of the Communist Party (Bolshevik) of the Ukraine. In 1941–42, Kovpak’s unit carried out raids in the rear of the enemy in Sumy, Kursk, Orel, and Briansk oblasts; in 1942–43, they carried out a raid from the Briansk forests to the Right-bank Ukraine through Gomel’, Pinsk, Volyn’, Rovno, Zhitomir, and Kiev oblasts; and in 1943 they raided the Carpathians. Kovpak’s Sumy partisan unit covered a distance of more than 10,000 km in fighting at the rear of the fascist German troops and crushed enemy garrisons in 39 populated areas. Kovpak’s raids played an important role in the development of the partisan movement against the fascist German occupying forces. The Sumy unit was renamed the Kovpak 1st Ukrainian Partisan Division in January 1944. Kovpak became deputy chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR in 1947 and a member of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR in April 1967. He was a deputy to the Supreme Soviet of the USSR at the second through seventh convocations. Kovpak was awarded four Orders of Lenin, the Order of the Red Banner, the Order of Suvorov First class, the Order of Bogdan Khmel’nitskii First class, orders from the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic and the Polish People’s Republic, and various medals.

Go to the deep of the enemy territory and beat everybody; siege and capture ungarrisoned settlements again and again and again, doing mostly economical damage, because enemy warbands eagerly raiding their own village. When city or castle is recaptured, it has full stack of problems, from poverty to rebellions. It is slowly weakening the enemy, and in fact I have upper hand in fighting, however it is not decisive to win in a reasonable time but noticeable enough to make lords chewing their snots about peace treaty. This strategy is making the progress, but as I said, it will take 3-5 game years of hand weeding.

In addition I understood something else. I just cannot convert money to the warfare. My economics is better, the core of Third Empire is untouched by war because my strategy was better, but all I have from this - is a useless growing number in the right down corner.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
Yeah, conspiracy quest war.

I unified the Empire under the Dragon Banner, and Battania, Aserai and Horseaites Khuzaites started a war against me.

Firstly, I want to say about unclear targets of this quest. Three balance bars and what with them? I entered the war with full garrisons of my clan's 6 cities, 800k, 2500 inf, 5 clans + 2 mercs, and own party of 220 bucellarii and 60-70 cataphracts so I swiftly gathered 1500 men army in Rhotae and went to the Battania territory. After I destroyed 1700 men Caladog's Army (and kill him) and other two lesser armies, captured two cities and two castles I had +33% percent on the War Progress Bar. What I supposed to do for 100? Wipe them from the face of the Earth? If yes - please make it clear - "Destroy them no matter what". Battania at this moment had 3 wars, and additionally had 4 with minor factions, and now they lost third of territory, and half of military. So if they need a moment to cry for mercy - this was right time. They didn't. But after a couple of castles and few other actions, like raiding and destroying some warbands I see the window to make peace. Ok, no problem.

Errrrr, the quest and progress bar did not disappear. Perhaps it was not the end of the war which matched to the quest goal. But how should I know this? Dear dev team, if there should be something special, let us know that. Do not hesitate to write 'Quest completed if you see enemy king is bending knee', or 'You PERSONALLY will see option "Our realms should make peace" in the talk again' or something else.

Ok than, Battania was "pacified" and I went to the East Front making reinforcements and gathering additional lords with their parties. It was about time, my friend Monchug with 2200 men army was going to Saneopa, so I crushed him. 11 noble prisoners only for me. Returned to Amitatys, dropped the prisoners, disband some lords for replenishment, add own troops to the clan parties, and wend the fields again. Got Phycaon, Argoron and few castles, destroyed few armies, and made peace. Also gave a great whoopin' to Unquid.

Forgot to say, West Empire declared war against me too, not as part of coalition. But because it was happening mostly around Ortysia, where Aserai's and mine lords already were shoving sharpened pieces of iron to each other, I left it to them. Then I got from Aserai low-garrisoned Onira, Danustika, Syronea, Rasih, Quasira, and castles I didn't even count. To this moment, I exhausted my army to 450 men and Battania declared new war. I made peace with Aserai, and complete the first circle exiting Aserai territory near Ortysia. Replenished in Zeonica, and with my clan parties invaded to Battania. Next I routinely took few cities and castles which was with very small garrison, aaaand...

Khusaites declared war. To this moment I had 2,2 millions of denars from loot, added two or three new clans to kingdom, 2k of influence and lost half of high-tier units. So I left Battanian war to the lords, then replenished in Poros and went again to the meet with my dear friend Monchug. Of course he already got all my previous acquisitions, because their graces m'lords did not give even a little **** about garrisoning and defense. Of course I beat them and their minor armies, again acquired Onira, Danustica, Phycaon, Syronea and few castles. But my lords CANNOT hold them by default, but I need them to make progress in wars.

My vassals also do not want to end wars, they very satisfied by the current course of war and with actual separation of duties. I fight and make the progress, they running as junked up roaches without any real output, but they definetely feel that we are winning (we are not). In fact, we are in the strategic dead end own to gameplay limitation. And I started to savescum to not let Aserai enter the war again. I feel no guilt. I'm tired. I killed 8-10 enemy nobles during this war (in battles), and it seems that the war will continue until I kill another 30-40 and then will be just not enough to make infinite carousel of next day escaping and immediately returning lords, behaving like locust. I really want to break the game and start to execute everyone I cought.

tl;dr.

Game year and a half of indefinite war, where it's simply impossible to hold assets which are needed to push that *****ng quest bars to +100. Lords in my army give 10-20 troops total to newly captured city, and I understand them, I am also not eager to give troops to the feud that will be given to other vassal. But after assigning fief to the lord he unable to organize the defense even from 100 men party of enemy. I personally cannot and have no desire to give 300-500 troops to every city I captured. At least, give us a possibility to quickly replenish militia for money, or pin some lazy bastards, our lords, to their new fiefs until they have descent garrison, or something like this. And let captured lord sit in prison longer, and returning to war after 2 weeks, no less.

Please make clear description what are the targets to achieve to end conspiracy wars. Redesign them if needed. It also be useful to make single progress bar to "Conspiracy War". As it stated in quest tab, this is a coalition war, so it would be realistic that defeating one coalition member will break it. Or just if the whole coalition was damaged enough instead of per-faction ratio. In fact, now I need simply to destroy three most powerful factions in the game. Littlie thing, nothing to speak about.



PS - I am still receiving letters from Istiana about caravans, bandits and other ****.
Yeah I got to admit, it is damn frustrating that a newly appointed lord isn't focusing on garrisoning and stabilizing his new fief. Instead you the player have to babysit the new fief if you want your faction to hold on to the territory and make progress.

I am not sure the specific solution but the AI should be programmed to make stabilizing the captured territory a priority, maybe make all the lords in the area drop off 10 or so troops every so often until the garrison reaches a certain level or maybe have AI armies prioritize staying in the vicinity of newly captured territories to help stop enemy armies from even reaching the newly acquired fife.
 

Drax70

Sergeant at Arms
My opinion is that, only modders understand the game's structure better than the developers! :sad:

How come you fix something and another thing appears "broken"? This, I will never understand...!
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
My opinion is that, only modders understand the game's structure better than the developers! :sad:

How come you fix something and another thing appears "broken"? This, I will never understand...!
I think a lot of it has to do with the developers trying to accommodate everyone and working under someone else's supervision or at the direction of a committee while modders tend to be individuals who just see something as needing to be fixed and fix it according to their own perceptions and leave it to the players to determine if they want to add in their fix or not.

For example, since adding a mod is voluntary, who cares if someone doesn't like that a mod that makes armor protection much strong at the expense of arrows and archery being very weak. Don't like the mod, don't install it. However the Devs have to think about how everyone would feel about the change. If the battles go too long due to how strong armor is, will everyone be ok with it? Will the archer players be OK with bows doing 5-10 damage a hit with the best bow in game? Do we need some compromise? Does changing the power of bows and armor change faction balance by too much? What do we do if changing the way armor and bows works does break faction balance, how do we fix it?

As you can see the devs have a much, much more complex problem they are solving for while in this example, the modder just wants armor to be more protective and archers to be weakened and doesn't care about faction balance. Of course this then opens the door for another modder to take the armor and archery rebalance mod and do a complete faction balance overhaul around those changes again with a completely voluntary mod you can decide to load or not and maybe they just double or triple the damage on bows to make them powerful again.

I guess my point is that generally speaking, mods are better because they allow for you to customize your experience. This is why I don't care much how the native experience is. As long as the framework for everything is in place and there are good modding tools, the modded game experience is ALWAYS going to be better than native.
 

ThorheimAP

Recruit
Yeah, been at war with the Vlandian since forever. Playing as Battania in my longest game, It+s basically: Battania, Southern Emps, Aseri and Khuzait left. And Vlandia... Detherts clan... and he constantly raids MY villiages around Pravend and Galend. N.Emps, W.Emps, Sturgia are all gone and eliminated from the game. But not Vlandia. I dont know how this works...
 
That´s one of the reasons late game in bannerlord sucks. Another would be: why even become king? your decisions are pretty much pointless. you can´t controll armies (if a lord decides that 1k army is perfect to raid a village with 10 militia you can´t interfere) you can´t stop your vassals from declaring multiple wars (they simply vote until you got no more influence), the only thing you can decide is the distribution of fiefs. If you make an army you can´t even let go of it because your vassals will do something else with it you won´t like. My kingdom for a good AI!!!!!
 
if a lord decides that 1k army is perfect to raid a village with 10 militia you can´t interfere
when a large army like that raids it generally means they are out of food (and since raiding sucks, they can't raid fast enough to stop them from starving). the best option is to go to the kingdom management, select "armies" and force that army to disband, though it does cost influence. you can do this even as a vassal
Tyou can´t stop your vassals from declaring multiple wars (they simply vote until you got no more influence),
sadly that is true, but you can force them to stop one war if you have a lot of spare influence. it may not seem like much, but this can really free up your vassals so they can focus on one enem- AH ****!! Kuzaits declared war on me :/.
 

McDadden

Recruit
I think a lot of it has to do with the developers trying to accommodate everyone and working under someone else's supervision or at the direction of a committee while modders tend to be individuals who just see something as needing to be fixed and fix it according to their own perceptions and leave it to the players to determine if they want to add in their fix or not.

For example, since adding a mod is voluntary, who cares if someone doesn't like that a mod that makes armor protection much strong at the expense of arrows and archery being very weak. Don't like the mod, don't install it. However the Devs have to think about how everyone would feel about the change. If the battles go too long due to how strong armor is, will everyone be ok with it? Will the archer players be OK with bows doing 5-10 damage a hit with the best bow in game? Do we need some compromise? Does changing the power of bows and armor change faction balance by too much? What do we do if changing the way armor and bows works does break faction balance, how do we fix it?

As you can see the devs have a much, much more complex problem they are solving for while in this example, the modder just wants armor to be more protective and archers to be weakened and doesn't care about faction balance. Of course this then opens the door for another modder to take the armor and archery rebalance mod and do a complete faction balance overhaul around those changes again with a completely voluntary mod you can decide to load or not and maybe they just double or triple the damage on bows to make them powerful again.

I guess my point is that generally speaking, mods are better because they allow for you to customize your experience. This is why I don't care much how the native experience is. As long as the framework for everything is in place and there are good modding tools, the modded game experience is ALWAYS going to be better than native.
This. Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm truly looking forward to full mod support, so I can fine tune the game to the way I think it should be.

I do have issues with the endless war, but the best solution I've found is to talk to any noble of an enemy faction (provided you are the ruler of the faction) and make peace directly. If you meet them on the field you can give them a handful of crafted javelins or any other crafted item that is worth a lot and should be able to make peace rather easily. This will give you some reprieve and will take some time before your nobles vote to delcare war again.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
I'm not trying to contradict or argue with you, but I just want to say that currently, any kind of kingdom you make or join becomes endless, unrelenting war :sad:
Yep. I am in that cycle myself and I never did the quest. I created my Kingdom at Tier 5 and lords push for a new war declaration every 1-3 in game days. They aren't happy unless we are in a self-destructive war with at least 3 kingdoms simultaneously...well that is not true, I think I managed to be in just 2 wars, not 3 for a whole 20 minutes one time once but that respite cost me all my influence as I had to vote down 3 war requests during that 20 minute period.
 

ratschbumm

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
If anybody interested, I dumped Horse-aites reducing their fiefs to 2 cities and 4 or 5 castles. I could do peace getting 4800 denars of tribute a day, as diplomacy screen showed, but the quest end was a window stated that them are exhausted and ok. No tribute, but whatever.
 

Gandamula

Sergeant
In may last kingdom, I conquered all south empire settlements, and guess, the nobles still coming against me and after defeat them, again, and again, they still ask money to make peace. So I have to take drastic measures, I begin to chop every single noble prisioneiers heads,was the only solution because they use to escape from prison and after ten minutes they appear with a fresh recruit army.
 
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