Netherworld Chargers have too much HP.
- 主题发起人 Fuffles
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saerossaeros
Sergeant
I dumbed down all horses in my troop file. Steppe horses have 30 hp, netherworlds have 150 hp.
But even then they are pretty hard to kill.
But even then they are pretty hard to kill.
saerossaeros
Sergeant
I like it more like real life, where horses die with two arrows.
On the other hand, I increased their charge damage, also for reality's sake. Being trampled is very dangerous now.
On the other hand, I increased their charge damage, also for reality's sake. Being trampled is very dangerous now.
NeoBasilisk
Regular
They're meant to be basically unkillable. It forces you to change your strategy if your usual strategy is to kill the horse first instead of going directly for the rider.
reality in pop, is this some sort of... ? you really want reality? remove demons, elves, undead, qualis gems and go play enhanced warband with cool knighthood orders on new map with new units
not every mod has to be realistic, not every mod is meant to be realistic, many things here are pushed to their limits to be more climatic or difficult
peace
not every mod has to be realistic, not every mod is meant to be realistic, many things here are pushed to their limits to be more climatic or difficult
peace
Not that hard, sometimes you can kill the nether charger under a demonic magnus....and not live long enough to regret it
They are just fine, horses from hell.....ghost rider should ride one.besides.....why would you want to kill horses? you good for nothing mettenheim beer gulper
They are just fine, horses from hell.....ghost rider should ride one.besides.....why would you want to kill horses? you good for nothing mettenheim beer gulper
There is nothing unbalancing with the Netherworld Charger, no changes are needed. The Netherworld Charger is SLOW, and that's why I never ever use them myself or equip my companions with them. There is a huge advantage with speed that a lot of people don't understand, especially with the way the AI chooses to engage in combat. The reason why your companions with lances don't seem to be killing is because the horses they ride are way too slow. It takes a minimum speed to get the lance to couch, companions rarely ever reach this speed except at the initial charge with horses that go slower than 40. It's when you equip them with horses that go at least 44, like the Jatu Hunter, that they really shine and start lancing like they should.
You'll also notice that the AI will spend a lot of time chasing other cav. Well with a slow horse, naturally they never catch them or only do so when the enemy runs into a tree or the boundaries of the map. That's a lot of time wasted. Again, speed can make up for this, though imperfectly. The Netherworld Charger is a bad horse for lancers, a terrible horse that should never be used for lancers. You need to equip with sword and shield only if you are going to use the Netherworld Charger, then you are making a close combat mounted heavy infantry type which makes sense with the health of the Charger, but you also destroy a lot of advantages of cav. which is mobility. P.S. Speed is the reason why Jatu Lancers are so deadly.
In sum, it's really easy to outmaneuver and ride away from Netherworld Chargers which is the reason why they are not overpowered. This allows you to engage them on your terms, when you want to. Why waste an arrow on the horse when you can turn and follow the charger from behind and kill the rider who is a sitting duck on a slow horse? Change your tactics.
You'll also notice that the AI will spend a lot of time chasing other cav. Well with a slow horse, naturally they never catch them or only do so when the enemy runs into a tree or the boundaries of the map. That's a lot of time wasted. Again, speed can make up for this, though imperfectly. The Netherworld Charger is a bad horse for lancers, a terrible horse that should never be used for lancers. You need to equip with sword and shield only if you are going to use the Netherworld Charger, then you are making a close combat mounted heavy infantry type which makes sense with the health of the Charger, but you also destroy a lot of advantages of cav. which is mobility. P.S. Speed is the reason why Jatu Lancers are so deadly.
In sum, it's really easy to outmaneuver and ride away from Netherworld Chargers which is the reason why they are not overpowered. This allows you to engage them on your terms, when you want to. Why waste an arrow on the horse when you can turn and follow the charger from behind and kill the rider who is a sitting duck on a slow horse? Change your tactics.
spartan012
There is a reason they are called Netherworld 
It's as good as complaining about the existence of the Noldor.
And their ability to shoot like machine guns, with the accuracy of a sniper rifle.
Edit:
Haha this just made my day.
It's as good as complaining about the existence of the Noldor.
And their ability to shoot like machine guns, with the accuracy of a sniper rifle.
Edit:
NicotiN 说:
Haha this just made my day.
saerossaeros
Sergeant
My reality has all of those
As I said, I wanted to remove the heavy cavalry supremacy that pop has, so that pure archers and foot characters alike may have a chance.
Besides, I increased their charge to a deadly level. Now my soldiers really piss their pants when they see a charge of cavalry against them - because if they don't kill the horse in time (and netherworlds still take 3-5 arrows), they die.
But that's just my style of play.
Fuffles
Regular
I never said I wanted reality, nor did I say I used Netherworld chargers or even had trouble with them, what I did say is that their health combined with their armor makes your AI troops waste a LOT of time hitting a horse that won't die.
I can't change my troops odd preference towards killing horses anymore than you can. It even makes sense to kill the horse, except in the case of Netherworld chargers, so it's not even really the AI's fault.
I can't change my troops odd preference towards killing horses anymore than you can. It even makes sense to kill the horse, except in the case of Netherworld chargers, so it's not even really the AI's fault.
spartan012
saerossaeros 说:
My reality has all of those
As I said, I wanted to remove the heavy cavalry supremacy that pop has, so that pure archers and foot characters alike may have a chance.
Besides, I increased their charge to a deadly level. Now my soldiers really piss their pants when they see a charge of cavalry against them - because if they don't kill the horse in time (and netherworlds still take 3-5 arrows), they die.
But that's just my style of play.
Don't forget rune weapons and qualis gems
spartan012
That's what halberdiers are for. They can slash both the horse and the riders, and can face off infantry pretty easily. Clearly, you haven't used halberdiers and Spearsmen to their full ability. I think.
Netherworld chargers are meant to instill fear into your soldier, seeing the horses taking arrow after arrow but not felling. Just be glad the dev didn't give it like 1000 Hp, or something like that.
Netherworld chargers are meant to instill fear into your soldier, seeing the horses taking arrow after arrow but not felling. Just be glad the dev didn't give it like 1000 Hp, or something like that.
That's the funny thing to me. The Netherworld Charger is supposed to be the unkillable horse, since it's already dead (and armored). So the devs could have given it so much hp that it literally would be unkillable, but if you really do try hard and put in the effort, you can kill a NC. That being said, I'd like to adress....
"NetherworldCharger is slow" <----- 37 speed is not that slow. It's faster than the Falcon Order's horses. It's 3 points away from 40 speed, which hunters have, and hunters aren't that slow
"Netherworld Charger is impossible to kill" - read first part of this post
"Netherworld Charger is overpowered" - The devs made it that way! This is PoP, ladies and gentlemen. Vanilla is still available
"I gave so-&-so horse 30 hp, and gave NC 150, for the sake of realism"
now, that statement I need to specifically address real quick. Realism = horses are like horses are in real life. Have you ever rode a horse? I did, in a summer camp in my youth. I had to learn how to care for, and ride horses. Trust me, they are multitudes more powerful than you have been imagining. Troops themselves take arrows before falling. No horse that is trained for war would ever take 1 arrow and fall. that's like wearing armor, taking a strike that doesn't penetrate your armor, and falling to the ground in pain and sorrow.
On that note, I'll mention what has already been mentioned: realism in PoP? That's like asking Obama to make a rap video, it doesn't work that way
"NetherworldCharger is slow" <----- 37 speed is not that slow. It's faster than the Falcon Order's horses. It's 3 points away from 40 speed, which hunters have, and hunters aren't that slow
"Netherworld Charger is impossible to kill" - read first part of this post
"Netherworld Charger is overpowered" - The devs made it that way! This is PoP, ladies and gentlemen. Vanilla is still available
"I gave so-&-so horse 30 hp, and gave NC 150, for the sake of realism"
now, that statement I need to specifically address real quick. Realism = horses are like horses are in real life. Have you ever rode a horse? I did, in a summer camp in my youth. I had to learn how to care for, and ride horses. Trust me, they are multitudes more powerful than you have been imagining. Troops themselves take arrows before falling. No horse that is trained for war would ever take 1 arrow and fall. that's like wearing armor, taking a strike that doesn't penetrate your armor, and falling to the ground in pain and sorrow.
On that note, I'll mention what has already been mentioned: realism in PoP? That's like asking Obama to make a rap video, it doesn't work that way
Dlent 说:
Yea, one shot from my bow takes that thing down
, and yes, I can catch them.But those damn NWC....
felixng2011
Sergeant at Arms
Is there anyway to easily get netherworld chargers outside of cheating? I want my team to all use netherworld chargers.
I want them to look menacing.
I want them to look menacing.
Fight a bunch of snake cult parties.
And I'm not going to waste my time posting anymore paragraphs of well thought out points and facts, if some ******* is just going to say "noldor spirit horsee" as a ****ing reply. **** off
And I'm not going to waste my time posting anymore paragraphs of well thought out points and facts, if some ******* is just going to say "noldor spirit horsee" as a ****ing reply. **** off
