MP Nerfing cavalry

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Falrock

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Right now cavalry on multiplayer are pretty overpowered. I get that they would be difficult to fight in a realistic situation but I think they should either decrease the HP of the horses or make spears more damaging against them.

I often have cavalry charging almost full speed directly into a spear thrust to its front, sometimes they just take 200 damage then ride away when they should probably be very dead.

Another suggestion might be to have horses 'rear' when they hit a wall or barrier like they did in Warband. Cav was much more balanced there. I'm fine with cavalry being a formidable foe but I don't really feel like players have much of a fair chance against them as it is right now.
 
In the RCM, horses were faster and more agile, feeling a lot more realistic and fun to ride, but had a lot less HP. Currently, you can hit a naked horse solidly with a two-handed sword, and it will be just fine. Only the strongest weapons hitting a charging horse for maximum relative speed are able to take one down.
 
I like the speed of the horses, thats about all. There needs to be consequenses for running headlong into things. Watching a horse pinball down an alley with impunity is just a bit silly.
 
Lower horse HP would be the main way. I said horses felt like overweight hippos... and their HP reflects that pretty well. They're very tanks. A realistic horse is more effective in terms of speed, but they're still flesh and bone, even if they're considerably bigger and tougher than humans.
 
Cavalry are pretty good, but they're also more expensive. I have sometimes done very well as a cavalry character, but it is really challenging hitting anyone with a spear and controlling that sluggish hippo of a horse. So, in my experience I haven't found them too OP, though it is very annoying when you get lanced as you spawn.
 
that sluggish hippo of a horse.

Have you tried double-tapping W and S as a means of sudden acceleration and turning (basically drifting)? I find horses perfectly maneuverable in close combat if you integrate both of these into your playstyle. The only problem I have with them is their maneuverability at full speed (which is goddamn horrendous), but at slower speeds and in situations when you have to be close enough to a teamfight to help at all times, they seem to handle fine.

To address the current issue, cavalry health should be nerfed - heavily. I think the armour values on heavy cavalry especially need tuning down (think the Mameluke with no barding or Druzhinnik should be the "improved horse armour" baseline, barding for the Knight and Cataphract are just too high), and they need to rear when they hit obstacles.
 
I think there are three main issues that make them feel powerful:

1. The hitboxes on rearing are messed up. You can only reasonably stop a horse by spearing it while being almost directly in front of it. I've reported this as a bug because I honestly don't see the design choice here - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/e1-0-7-cavalry-rearing-hitbox-issues.409755/

2. Experienced players play them. Generally, to be good at a game like Warband or Bannerlord, it's highly important you learn things such as reach, footwork, reactions and timings. I'm a main archer but horrible cav in Warband, but I find it extremely easier in Bannerlord to play it due to knowing timings, something most of my opponents have no grasp of because they're, understandably, new at the game. When an opponent tries to counter me by spearing my horse, for example, first of all he fails to do so because of an arbitrary setup of rearing hitboxes, and secondly, I believe it's because they don't know the release timing well enough. Most people release their spears very late in the approach of the enemy cav, and thus, they end up getting couched and outreached by something they shouldn't.

3. Most people are unaware. They don't hear cav, they don't listen to cav, and that's understandable. It took me close to a hundred hours to actively start listening to cav back in the day and I still managed to get surprise couched when I was heavily focusing on shooting infantry in a match, but most people get spawn-couched because they simply don't expect the cavalry to rush their spawn so quickly (the map design also allows this to be done easily) and they don't listen for the cav either, unaware of the distance they are at because they're new to the game or have not yet properly learned it.

I'm still not sure but I also do believe the horse armor makes most weapons glance too much. Of course, I haven't properly tested this.

As for horse maneuverability, I personally love it. Double-tapping S and W + E makes a huge difference in gameplay.
 
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The biggest problem with cav is that they completely ignore collision and just run through formations. In addition, spears aren't physical objects in the game so they do not properly work to as anti-cav.
 
I think there are three main issues that make them feel powerful:

1. The hitboxes on rearing are messed up. You can only reasonably stop a horse by spearing it while being almost directly in front of it. I've reported this as a bug because I honestly don't see the design choice here - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/e1-0-7-cavalry-rearing-hitbox-issues.409755/

2. Experienced players play them. Generally, to be good at a game like Warband or Bannerlord, it's highly important you learn things such as reach, footwork, reactions and timings. I'm a main archer but horrible cav in Warband, but I find it extremely easier in Bannerlord to play it due to knowing timings, something most of my opponents have no grasp of because they're, understandably, new at the game. When an opponent tries to counter me by spearing my horse, for example, first of all he fails to do so because of an arbitrary setup of rearing hitboxes, and secondly, I believe it's because they don't know the release timing well enough. Most people release their spears very late in the approach of the enemy cav, and thus, they end up getting couched and outreached by something they shouldn't.

3. Most people are unaware. They don't hear cav, they don't listen to cav, and that's understandable. It took me close to a hundred hours to actively start listening to cav back in the day and I still managed to get surprise couched when I was heavily focusing on shooting infantry in a match, but most people get spawn-couched because they simply don't expect the cavalry to rush their spawn so quickly (the map design also allows this to be done easily) and they don't listen for the cav either, unaware of the distance they are at because they're new to the game or have not yet properly learned it.

I'm still not sure but I also do believe the horse armor makes most weapons glance too much. Of course, I haven't properly tested this.

As for horse maneuverability, I personally love it. Double-tapping S and W + E makes a huge difference in gameplay.
This sums it up pretty well. Especially the 2nd and 3rd point.
 
What I find particularly odd is that a cav rider can put his shield up getting launched from his horse and going for a tumble but a player that a cav knocks over with a charge is down longer and helpless the whole time. Both of those situations need to be adjusted. But getting knocked down by cav is pretty much a death sentence, there are instances where I've been standing several meters away from someone knocked down by cav, able to run up as heavy infantry, and finish them off before they stand up fully.
 
Cavalry is pretty decent ATM.

Main issue is with hitboxes of a rider. Either on horse and when falling. I hate when almost all character disappears underground when falling of horse leaving like only half leg and ass above. Or when shield didn't really stopped hit but hitboxes did attacking from left or back-left side.

However awlpikes - I struggle to stop horse with it. I know it can be done or easily take down horse rider with upper attack but damn I'm always so confused ending up me dying.
 
Decent isn't really a good way to put it. Every game is full of cavalries. Regardless of the players skilllevel. Simply because the class is still broken and too hard to punish. No reason to play another class for public.
 
Dehorsed Cavs shrug off falling off a speeding horse and breaking all of their bones waaaaay too fast compared to a guy that gets knocked down by a horse.

I feel like making heavy cav so expensive that you can only play one life per skirmish round if you so choose it would be the best solution for now.
 
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