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NeoGK competitive combatible

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Apfel

Knight at Arms
Hey,
After the Grafblade drama during WNL i wrote to KingArthur, host of the TG servers and main editor of the "siegemod" and asked him if it would be possible to have a NeoGK version without troopamounts indicated on the scoreboard so you can play officials without changing module.
Now he updated the mod so you can disable this "cheat" information on the scoreboard, just download the latest file here: https://community.troll-game.org/files/file/7-trollgame-neogk/

you have to press esc ingame and select "NeoGK Settings" and disable it there.

Enjoy! big thanks to KingArthur :wink:

 

Apfel

Knight at Arms
I know this feature can be used to hide cheating, but it wont really change anything because admins nearly never ask for screenshots, so it would be easy to use the mod undetected without this update.
So it basicly helps hiding it, but because noone searches it doesnt really matter imo
I still dont really rate the whole mod as a cheat, you will get the same information after one cav scout.
In my opinion the feature offers more advantages, things like the Grafblade drama (the only case of detected neogk usage and that only because of the player himself posting the screen) wont happen, neogk users wont have to change module and this is a big deal imo
 

imemine

Sergeant Knight at Arms
It is still up to the tournament hosters to decide whether a mod is allowed or not and this does not change if nobody is actively searching for this rule-break. It's the same with speed limits on streets, they also matter if the police are not around and do not check it. So better to show good sportsmanship and to stick to the rules when you participate in a tournament. It's not a big deal to change the module and therefore, no need to break the rules just cause you are lazy.
 

Apfel

Knight at Arms
imemine said:
It is still up to the tournament hosters to decide whether a mod is allowed or not and this does not change if nobody is actively searching for this rule-break. It's the same with speed limits on streets, they also matter if the police are not around and do not check it. So better to show good sportsmanship and to stick to the rules when you participate in a tournament. It's not a big deal to change the module and therefore, no need to break the rules just cause you are lazy.
Just hoped tournament organisators would see how pointless the "law" is in this case :/
I think it was wrong to post this :ohdear: yeah, to many bad humans around just seekin advantage for themselves. If the mod is forbidden in a tournament you shouldnt use it ofc. Shame noone can prove you have the mod now, sad :mad:
 

Killfacer

Marquis
WB
Someone got banned for using a cheat so you asked someone to make it so you can easily hide the cheat. ****in A for logic there.
 
This thread should have started with "Thank you to everyone who has cheated all these years. We appreciate your efforts and always aim to make your experience as smooth as possible. No longer you will have to hide from people but cheat whenever and however you want! Huge thanks to KingArthur for making this possible!"
 

imemine

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Apfel said:
Just hoped tournament organisators would see how pointless the "law" is in this case :/
I think it was wrong to post this :ohdear: yeah, to many bad humans around just seekin advantage for themselves. If the mod is forbidden in a tournament you shouldnt use it ofc. Shame noone can prove you have the mod now, sad :mad:

I think the core idea to have a NeoGK version which is not conflicting with tournament rules was not even a bad one. However, the solution to add a simple toggle function for conflicting features (as it was done by KingArthur) missed if not even contradicted your original idea. And I guess this was not what you originally had in mind when asking for a NeoGK version without this feature.
We should take into account that NeoGK mod is a widely used replacement for vanilla Native in the community. Therefore, besides intentional cheating to gain an advantage of the mod's features, unintentional rule-breaking (e.g, forgot to switch the mod) is most likely not a rare thing. And in my opinion, it is worth to discuss potential solutions in the community for future tournaments cause obviously a tournament rule alone might not sufficiently address this issue.

One approach could be that tournament hosters allow such commonly used Native mods and they are available for all participants. It would be up to the players to decide whether they use a feature or stick to vanilla Native. The downside of this is that the gameplay might be driven too far away from the vanilla Native one and it could impair the competitive challenge tournaments should offer for players. Moreover, the problem with mods which are not whitelisted for a certain tournament still remains. Another approach could be that tournament hosters rename their Native module folder so that players can't join accidentally an official tournament server without the proper tournament mod. Chosing the right module from a drop-down list after restarting Warband might be a bit more convenient than renaming and replacing the Native folder with the correct mod before an official tournament. But on the other hand it would limit the liberal use of tournament servers for non-official training matches. However, it would at least allow distinguishing between intentional cheaters and those who just forgot to replace the Native folder.

I am not in favour of any of the solutions. As I said it is up to the tournament hosters to decide on the rules and the players that want to participate should stick to them. But, maybe we can use this topic to get more input and ideas by the community on how to deal with this issue and reduce the amount of conflict and drama in future tournaments.
 

Muzzle C

Sergeant Knight
WBNWWF&SVC
In my opinion tournament mod should've been forced a long time already..
I dunno why it was not yet introduced.
It's not a big deal to write a script to check if client has the right mod (so that simply renaming a folder wouldn't be enough).
I'm sure it was thought before, would like to know for what reason it never happened
 
Will your script check the textures / resources folder, too? Because, it is not the only txt files that are changed for cheats.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
A separate tournament mod has usually been considered too much of a barrier since it would require every single participant to download it, half the time people don't even get the native compatible admin mod. Still, it would be good both for anti-cheat and for competitive balancing so it really depends on people being up for it.
 

K.A.

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Apfel, i didn't know it was a so big problem. At this point i suggest you to keep 2 native folders one with neogk and one clean and rename to Native the one you need.
I think you guys should hunt those using real cheats (like autoblock, aimbot) more than those using these things.
 

Muzzle C

Sergeant Knight
WBNWWF&SVC
Efe Karacar said:
Will your script check the textures / resources folder, too? Because, it is not the only txt files that are changed for cheats.

Yep that's different matter, can't check them via ms as long as i know and modified exe files is not an option. (Not everyone trusts custom executables).
But still good part of cheating could be eliminated with tournament mod and it would also open possibilities for improvements.
OGL's point is good that it would create slight barrier tho, however i don't believe the barrier would be too big. People still want to play tournaments.
Would be worth testing don't you think?
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
OurGloriousLeader said:
A separate tournament mod has usually been considered too much of a barrier since it would require every single participant to download it, half the time people don't even get the native compatible admin mod. Still, it would be good both for anti-cheat and for competitive balancing so it really depends on people being up for it.


People don't download the admin mod because they're not required to. If you can only join matches with that mod, people will download it.
 
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