[NC2019] Questions & Suggestions

Ascarion

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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not sure wheter I understood it correctly, but defaulttime can only be forced if both teams suggest an equal amount of dates ,ye?
 

Charlini

Master Knight
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I always thought def time is the one played in case of disagreement. I could offer multiple times at AM hours, shouldn't give me pick preference.
 

Ascarion

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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If Team A offers 3 days,with a time which is usually played (7-9gmt) and Team B only offers Sunday.

Team B refuses all suggestions made by Team A, therefore deftime will be forced, in favor of Team B.

isnt that kinda unfair?
 

Charlini

Master Knight
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Well it's unfair in teams of chances offered, but imo when you create a tournament you gotta force a default time so that if they disagree they have to play at a certain time. Its usually sunday cos its when ppl is mostly most free by evening. Theorically when you sign up you should know you need to at least be able to play those default times
 

Watly

Grandmaster Knight
WB
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Charlini said:
Well it's unfair in teams of chances offered, but imo when you create a tournament you gotta force a default time so that if they disagree they have to play at a certain time. Its usually sunday cos its when ppl is mostly most free by evening. Theorically when you sign up you should know you need to at least be able to play those default times
This.
 

Ascarion

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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Well I understand your point, but I didnt say "abolish deftime".
I rather want to point out that, how the rule is written right now, its not fair for both teams.

Its fair to force deftime if equal circumstances are given, e.g. both teams offer same amount of days.


-A: Offers (FR/SA) 7-9GMT
-B: Offers (SUN)  7-9GMT

B instantly refuses all suggestions made by Team A because deftime will be forced anyway.
-> No equal circumstances are given, because 1/2 = 0.5 quick maths
-> In this case, it would be more fair, to force Team B to pick one of Team A's suggestions.

-A: Offers (FR/SA) 7-9GMT
-B: Offers (THURS/SUN)  7-9GMT
Both teams cant agree on one date, therefore deftime will be forced.
-> Equal circumstances are given 2/2 = 1 quick maths
 

AngryNerd

Sergeant Knight
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It's the second time you can't play def. time. Last time we put ourselves at a disadvantage, so you guys could play, this time we won't even be able to fill a team on monday you offered.  It's called a default day for a reason and you should be ready for it. You can't expect us to always be avaible at other days just because you can never play sunday.
 

Ascarion

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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AngryNerd said:
It's the second time you can't play def. time. Last time we put ourselves at a disadvantage, so you guys could play, this time we won't even be able to fill a team on monday you offered.  It's called a default day for a reason and you should be ready for it. You can't expect us to always be avaible at other days just because you can never play sunday.
top quality answer, great arguments. Thanks case solved.
 

Tardet

French Toast
Count
NW
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Irony aside, he got a point Ascarion. The default time is applied when both teams cannot find a suitable day where they can play. We won't enforce it if for exemple, it seems obvious for us that one team refuse the other days but can actually play on them (and that's often a part really tricky to figure out, ngl). But nowhere is it written that because you offer more days/times, you will get to play on a day which suits you best. If we were to do that, then there would not be a need for a default time.

I tried to use that system (the teams which offered more days gets to decide where the match happens in case of a disagreement) in an other tournament on NW and I wasn't super happy with the results I got, mostly because it is so easy to abuse that system and leads to some leaders showing extreme bad faith in order to **** one team over. So speaking from experience, even if I get where you are coming from, it's far from ideal.

I am not fully aware of what's causing Poland not being to play in other days but Sunday, and why Germany cannot play at all on Sunday so if both parties are kind enough to reach me out on steam, maybe we can figure out a decent solution.
 

Ascarion

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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Alright thanks for a proper explaination.

And now Im asking, how did they abuse that system?
 

Tardet

French Toast
Count
NW
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It was mostly a case of some leaders heavily disliking eachothers and when it came to scheduling their match, one side attempted abusing the system by offering one more day than the other, refusing to play on Sunday while every four prior weeks they had been able to. When we confronted the leader, he straight up lied to our faces claiming he wouldn't have enough members on Sunday, throwing some 'missing player names' into the discussion which we knew would actually be around on Sunday. It lead to a lot of drama, endless discussions and wasted time because one person couldn't let go of past grudges.

That's why when after that, I saw this default time system being used in Native tournaments, it didn't seem like a bad idea to me. Sure in some occasions it's gonna make it hard for some teams to play and I understand that but unless someone comes up with a better solution, it gives us (admins) a back-up option if the situation has reached an impasse.
 

Ascarion

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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Deftime doesnt prevent leaders of lying that they have missing players too. Same can be abused here.
Also you mentioned that, the team (a) which offers more days, can choose. team (b), with the less suggestions, should choose out of (a)'s suggestions

Isn't it more likely to be available on one of 3 days, than only one day the whole week?
 

Tardet

French Toast
Count
NW
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Not when the day where most of the warband players are free is Sunday. 

I'm not saying def time prevents people from lying. You asked me a question, I answered you.
 

Ascarion

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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I guess it will be smarter to move that discussion to steam, otherwise we will bomb this thread.
 

LaPache

Knight
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
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It kinda sucks that we offer pretty much anyday at this point except sunday and they refuse any other day than sunday.
 
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No clue what tournaments format this is but the quarterfinal matchups make no sense. UK who finished 3rd Div A get the easiest possibly seed available.

Matchups shouldve been
Poland TR 2
TR NA
UK BeNe
FRA GER

Then you put place 1 and 2 div A on the opposite sides of the bracket so that they can't play before final (no idea if thats the case atm).

Hope this gets fixed for the next tournaments.