[NC2019] Final Nation's Cup Announcement & Signups

[Fietta]

I think people are forgetting that 'playable' isnt reasonable, its suppose to be a test of skill, representing your Nation. People who're pretending that 100 - 150 ping is a reasonable representation of that nation's skill is being very silly. It's very surprising to see Watly going with such awful approaches.

Again it's not a popularity contest and with current format, I could quite confidently see a lot of european teams going against non europeans, with the exception of first seed. Can't wait for some seed's elimination matches at the end of groups to progress to be in elims being a ping war. Second of seed 3 going against third of seed 2 to progress into eliminations will surely be a non european match.

imagine not even reading the tournament format and then talking about how things are going to go. yikes.

You aren't in this tournament and your complaints are unreasonable. It's a Nation's Cup, not a European Cup. People will play very few matches against teams that are far away (if any at all) and the issue is being blown out of proportion.

But I did read the format no? Regardless of what seed goes against another seed at the end of groups, the result is the same. I'm unsure as to why you're upset, considering you're the one who's simple minded. You clearly read my post enough to understand that Eurovision also includes commonwealth countries and others; or didn't you? A name's a name, making it a Nations cup where it accommodates Europe over others is reasonable. If you actually read what I said, I didn't say to not allow non Europeans, just to accommodate euros over others. You dont know the placement of teams and what seed they're in, so why are you pretending you know the placements? Dont know who pissed on your chips.

You say my complaints are unreasonable but also use 'You're not in this tournament' as a 'reasonable' argument, that's just silly. You're being a very silly little boy.

We will most likely end up adjusting the seed a bit if needed so China isn't placed in the same group as 3x Argentina.

If you're adjusting the seeds to accommodate ping matches then that's ok, I dont entirely know how it would work and where China would be placed to ensure it's a reasonable group for them and the other teams. I just assumed seeding would be skill related as it's the WIS format and ping being secondary to the format. Out of curiosity, have you tested the ping on Moscow servers for China? I somehow find it hard to believe their pings will be under 150, especially east China.

 

[Rayden]

sa vs eu matches could be on turkish servers

 

[Rex_Barto_CDI]

sa vs eu matches could be on turkish servers

I want to die

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

Middle ground server is the best solution here. What i was complaining about was the potential system of home away. That being said middleground should then also be used for teams playing spain tr and russia. Most of them get terrible pings on german servers.

 

[Charlini]

NA/Canadian opponent.

canadians are no longer part of north america

"involved an NA/Canadian opponent" involved... involved -PAST- NCs[Last being 2017 if im not wrong]

Whatever Fietta wrote just disagreed after the first few sentences so stopped reading, phone or not no sense. We saw the 'flawed' format work nicely, better than others where stomps constantly happened, 0 punish for inactiveness and lack of incentive for weaker teams to play as well as other advantatges compared to other formats. If you've an optimal one youre still in time to host next tournament and show us I guess

 

[Alyss]

Middle ground server is the best solution here. What i was complaining about was the potential system of home away. That being said middleground should then also be used for teams playing spain tr and russia. Most of them get terrible pings on german servers.

The only case where you have to do home away is NA vs EU and EU teams have a better ping overall because some of them get a better ping than some NAs in NYC

In that case if you lose rounds in EU that’s more of a lack of skill rather than « ping issues » and if you win rounds in NA that’s a proof of skill. Unless you are really too worried about having more than 20 ping, home away with NA is playable and still competitive because both teams can win rounds abroad.

 

[Fietta]

NA/Canadian opponent.

canadians are no longer part of north america

"involved an NA/Canadian opponent" involved... involved -PAST- NCs[Last being 2017 if im not wrong]

Whatever Fietta wrote just disagreed after the first few sentences so stopped reading, phone or not no sense. We saw the 'flawed' format work nicely, better than others where stomps constantly happened, 0 punish for inactiveness and lack of incentive for weaker teams to play as well as other advantatges compared to other formats. If you've an optimal one youre still in time to host next tournament and show us I guess

Stopped reading after the first few sentences, yet I talked about the WIS in the last paragraph of the comment? I think you're just a bit upset, sure it allows lower skilled teams to go against lower skilled teams, but why would I ever want to be a last seeded top team? The numbers indicate a fake seed team level, just for reference. Obviously some could be the same yada yada but this is an extreme case.

Even if you're last in seed 1, you're most likely better than at least the second best in seed 2, as you're going against all seed 1 players whilst seed 2 are going against seed 2 players, I'd absolutely hate to be the bottom of seed 1, as there's no benefit over two seeds and have the worst scenario, even though you're better than seed 2 (that's why you're in seed 1, because you're theoretically better than seed 2 teams). No seed 2 teams should get priority over ANY of the seed 1 teams, as the seed 1 teams will almost always be better, the solution around it is to make the top of seed 2 go against the bottom of seed 1, and all of seed 1 should go to the knockouts, that means seed 2 teams will still have a chance to get into seed 1 and the end of the group, they just do the deciding match against the bottom of seed 1 to determine placements. That way the BEST teams will go through to knockouts.

Even if the seed 1 team comes last, they could absolutely destroy the tier 3 top team, so why does the format exist? What's the format trying to achieve?

 

[Charlini]

Check the results in that tournament and you'll find some answers. Think the team eliminated from group A proves that if you don't give a **** and play worse than the guys 'on your skill bracket' you're punished. And the difference between top from group B and bottom from group A shouldn't be big enough to easily determine a winner beforehand, think Unity vs DoF proved that in that tournament, so not sure what you on about with these 'conclusions'. On a side note, you don't get to choose where you play, you're seeded based on your previous performances and current level, so not much that you can choose to do.

If you don't like the format is one thing but don't try to bring bs around, results from that tournament and players' reactions were positive and proved the format's purpose that's all that matters.

You still got another tournament to suggest a format or host it yourself if this one doesn't suit you.

Edit: Also you forget that placements are up to the admin team to decide, larger playoff, less spots, even no spots straight to knockout for group C or D if teams are too unbalanced. In WIS placements were proven to be optimal and match ups could've been improved as set on conclusions, out of that it was great.

 

[Fietta]

Results from a tournament that clearly showed nothing apart from who wanted to play and who didn't? There's no good reason as to why you'd let a group C team go to knockouts and remove the bottom of group A. You're using a still very flawed and untested format in what is considered one of the biggest and competitive tournaments.

 

[Charlini]

Yeah, with the difference that in other tournaments there was no punish to those, same way there was no reward for those weak teams trying, what's your point.

Results from a tournament that clearly showed nothing apart from who wanted to play and who didn't? There's no good reason as to why you'd let a group C team go to knockouts and remove the bottom of group a.

Check ESP's team performance(bottom group A) that tournament, and you'll understand why we deserved to be eliminated. Then watch DoF's road, and group B and C development. You're just making up subjectival bs because you don't like the format, for the third time, why don't you host next and stop whining over made up stuff?

 

[Fietta]

Yeah, with the difference that in other tournaments there was no punish to those, same way there was no reward for those weak teams trying, what's your point

There's an easy solution without completely removing a group a team, what if they all tried? Why not make the bottom 2 of group A go to play offs with the top of group B? Letting a group C team go straight to knockouts without playoff isn't even worth talking about, because that decision is very silly.

 

[Charlini]

Yeah, with the difference that in other tournaments there was no punish to those, same way there was no reward for those weak teams trying, what's your point

There's an easy solution without completely removing a group a team, what if they all tried? Why not make the bottom 2 of group A go to play offs with the top of group B? Letting a group C team go straight to knockouts without playoff isn't even worth talking about, because that decision is very silly.

Are you even reading? PLACEMENTS ARE UP FOR THE ADMINS TO SET. If watly considers teams are balanced enough in top level to grant everyone spots in knockout or playoff, then he'll do it. It's the main advantatge of the format.

 

[Fietta]

Right, so the main advantage of using the format is to not use the format? You can't have a flexible format, if you make changes to placements and who goes to playoffs and knockouts, then that's not the WIS format, that's more-so a division based format with playoffs and groupstage.

 

[Charlini]

?

 

[Fietta]

I was talking to Watly about how **** the current WIS format is, and he told me that it's 'flexible', to the point where you remove the fact that a group c team could go straight to knockouts and instead go to playoffs, which is literally just describing a division based format. The format and exactly HOW it should be should be placed in OP so people know exactly what they're playing. A format is a strict specification, otherwise it's not the format, you can't choose placements willy nilly.

 

[Charlini]

Fietta, where do you see divisions. It's a seeded Group Stage(which you're confusing with divisions) that develops into a Knockout Stage, where some placements are given straight away and some others are disputed on a playoff week. The format is flexible as you can tweak the Group Stage into your taste, it's not something strictly fixed, same with the Placements that determine Knockout Stage. It's not that hard to understand and you're overcomplicating yourself when confusing format with tweaks inside a format that don't alter the format itself. If you don't understand it on the announcement of this thread, go and check WIS' maybe with a second read you can stop to blindly dislike the format. No point to answer further on my side everything's explained

 

[Fietta]

Right so changing Group C seed 1 to playoffs instead of knockouts isnt deceiving? Considering the format clearly states that top of Group C goes to knockouts? The 'tweaks' made seem very extreme in the sense you could change the mumbo jumbo of the entire format. These 'tweaks' to the format should be apparent as the only example we've had is an image and previous WIS which both use the same existing rules, it seems this wont.

 

[Harman]

To avoid this, we will invite respected members of the community on Sunday 29th of September to rank the teams.

Can you list those respected members of the community? Will the vote be public?

 

[Watly]

To avoid this, we will invite respected members of the community on Sunday 29th of September to rank the teams.

Can you list those respected members of the community? Will the vote be public?

I am currently making the form which will be sent to a number of people yet to be decided (depends on who responds). Results will be made public.

 

[FranzJoseph]

BANNER:

NATION: Turkey 2
CAPTAIN: FranzJoseph - TALEWORLDS PROFILE - https://steamcommunity.com/id/Kaiser61TS/
CO-CAPTAIN:Thorin - TALEWORLDS PROFILE - https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198219940751/
ROSTER:

Spoiler

KiymaliDanino	1029699
Serthas	1127698
gordioss	1204895
Cjj	1524313
Aerat	1568616
ParalyzeR	1676648
Xlasis	2167893
FranzJoseph	2317327
Thorin	2905311
Feodras	2915278

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