[NC2018] League Stage Week 3

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Golodir

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WBM&BWF&SNWVC
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LEAGUE STAGE - WEEK 3
16.10.2018 - 23.10.2018


Ukraine
7
-​
10
Czech Republic


United Kingdom III
3
-​
12
France


Spain
11
-​
4
Turkey II


United Kingdom I
10
-​
4
Belgium & Netherlands


Russia
8
-​
8
Finland


United Kingdom II
12
-​
2
Austria & Switzerland


North America
6
-​
8
Poland


Germany
4
-​
10
Turkey I
 

Menethil

Baron
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Another week another strong opponent. Seems like team Turkey will not rest... gl everyone
 

Tardet

French Toast
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NW
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Menethil said:
Another week another strong opponent. Seems like team Turkey will not rest... gl everyone
Ladder system with pick-nights to determine weekly fixtures has its flaws, like any other system. I hope things sort themselves out later in that stage and you can have at least one week to rest before the playoffs but if you continue to perform well against said strong opponents, it's likely you will continue facing them, as it is rather unlikely someone picks you.

I fully understand from your perspective it's a bit frustrating but you have experienced this system better than most and it indeed is more 'punishing' towards the strongest teams. With that being said, would you make it out of the ladder, your performance will be even more remarkable.

Best of luck against Germany, should be a really good match nevertheless. 
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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Remember also the ladder is ranked by, and pick priority decided by, BP after points, so playing many strong teams nets you some benefits.
 

Menethil

Baron
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Played in this system before with GWB in WNL6 i know what is gonna happen Tardet i am not blaming you but its just happens to my team unluckily. People might remember that we faced AE on 2nd week and beat them and we kept playing vs tier 1 teams such as FT Unity even twice.  And AE luckily played against lower tier of teams cause of this ladder. Eventually they won the tournament. Now same happening to Spain. We beat them by 1 round and they get to choose their opponent 2 weeks in a row.
Maybe be this is not the place for it but i wonder in this tournament do we have chance to play with same opponent twice? Because i am guessing easily with who we are gonna play. In this week if we beat Germany we will play vs poland. If we lose we  probably play vs Spain again. Enough said, are you thinking to avoid 2 teams playing twice in this tournament? If you dont let this happen we may have rest  in week 6 or something.



This is a post of mine in WNL6 Week 7 thread. BP points are useless mate sorry :/

Wow really cool match ups. Its a bit dissappointing to see League table right now. In the end we all know that points matters most and Bucholz points doesnt change anything.
Unity is facing vs GWB and if they lose they may be out of the tournament. Probably LL will take their place if they can beat Malta. I just checked both teams matchups during tournament and gotta say this doesnt look fair at all.

Unity played vs Battle Brothers, GWB, Reunited(x3), ** and lastly again GWB
LL played vs Oh No, GP, Space Khergitsx2, CCC, DOF and lastly Malta
No offense to any team i just wanted to show these 2 teams matchups during the tournament.

Another joke is a team who had to climb Everest(As mitchell said :grin:), nevertheless they are one of the best team in this tournament but we couldnt have chance to see their performance in this tournament.

AE played against, CCC,GWB,Trinity,EK,MoB,Wolfpack and lastly they will play against GP this week
GWB played against Space Khergits, AE, Unity, FT, Wolfpack, FT and lastly we will play against Unity this week.
In conclusion if AE beats GP this week they will be 2nd. And we can put our Bucholz points in our asses  :razz:

I believe there are more issues about it and I know that what I wrote will not change anything but I just wanted to people to see it. I dont expect any responds just look at it and laugh. Have a nice week everyone.
 

Jurgen

Knight
WBNWM&BWF&S
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Hey. Since Gibby was ignoring me all this time, I've decided to openly declare that Ukrainian team has problems with the players, and I plan to either giving the captain role to another player, or leaving the tournament entirely. As I do not have any back up players.
Everyone knows that I assembled this team from scratch, I even found Lares somewhere, an old star Warband player, but he doesnt play anymore. I made a team out of nothing. Not having experienced players. But even inexperienced players may not come to the match, and this is an auto-defeat for us.

The BeNe team, they did not do anything to get enough players, did not even have to look for them, and still they were allowed to create an alliance.

I wrote about the problem a week ago, before the match with America, but I was ignored. They spent a whole week to give me a negative answer: I asked to give me ONE Russian player to continue, because none of the other countries have players: Bulgaria, Serbia, Belarus, nobody. If the administration allows us to take only one Russian person in the team, I will continue. I am the only one active player in this team, thus I have no co-captain. I do everything myself.

I apologize to the Czech team. If we decide this before our Saturday match with her, I will be glad. If not, you can not do anything.
 

Charlini

Master Knight
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Menethil said:
Completly agree with what Menethil said, I lack to understand why 1 round difference granted us a 'way easier' path(no disrespect to our opponents intended) than what Turkey currently has and is gonna have. This problem already happened in a previous tournament as he stated, solutions should've been seeked related with league lenght and pick order priorities which by the way were changed in a unexpected way hours before the first draft. Now they're forced to either win everything against top teams 6 weeks in a row, and to fail any single of them means risking the placement as the league stage is shortened(I believe wnl had 7 weeks, not 6) and only top 4 go through, which means there's less chances to quality if you drop any point compared to a 7 week league format.

Correct me if I'm wrong but during wnl back then there was lot of people debating in forums involving the current tournament players and administrators supporting the idea that a league stage has to be longer than 7 weeks in order to keep balance so I really don't get why the tournament took 1 month and a week to start from the announcement, to have a short league stage(considering the format) with unexpected changes to come up. Mistakes were made, I suggested making the sign up deadline shorter so the tournament could start earlier, and you could've used these 1-2 extra weeks to enwide the league and make it more balanced long-term, at least enough so that if we faced a situation similar to Turkey's atm, they could allow themselves the chance of dropping 1-2 matches and still easily qualify in a FAIR way compared to the other teams.

Nothing to do now, hopefully Turkey isn't affected by the situation and if another tournament with this format comes up they either make it longer or change the pick night system in order to provide same paths for every team taking part in the league.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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This isn't the same system as WNL6 so not sure why you brought that up.

edit: It's the system from WPL2, you can see the matchups below.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,357925.0.html

 

Charlini

Master Knight
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OurGloriousLeader said:
This isn't the same system as WNL6 so not sure why you brought that up.
? WNL 6 --> LS into KS

Editing rules over pick night is a thing unrelated to the tournament format but involved in the way the matches through it are sorted out, we're playing the same format which is League stage into Knockout Stage. The pick night changes are not bad at all but as I explained above, uneffective on a 6 week-lenght league.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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WNL6 was automated matching teams with what was judged to be closest opponent, it ended up flawed (my mistakes!)

WPL2 and this NC use pick nights.
 

Menethil

Baron
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Yes man but in the end that doesnt change a lot does it? GWB and Team Turkey in this tournament will have the same path. A little unlucky moments in upcoming matches will effect us more than anyone. People pick easiest team for them and as i said i see the future already eventhough it is not "automated". But you forgat to answer my question. Will you allow same match happening in this tournament?
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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No Turkey won't have the same path as it's a different system.

It is a ladder stage, we don't have enough time for you to play everyone so what else would you suggest to allocate matches? We made a ladder stage to encourage more even-matchups and not to just have the group stage with easy stomps, and in this it seems we're successful. Further since you're playing good teams, if or when you do lose a match you will then have a higher chance to make your own pick due to priority from BP and rounds. If you don't lose a match then you'll be top of the league.

Regarding rematches, the rules are:

Teams may not pick a team they played against in the previous 2 weeks or a team more than one level above them, unless there is no other alternative.

I personally suggested no rematches at all but it was decided that if 2 teams are at the top all the time it may be worthwhile to have a rematch there. It should at least be limited by this rule however.
 

Charlini

Master Knight
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Ok I guess I'll have to repeat it

Pick night is a thing unrelated to the tournament format but involved in the way the matches through it are sorted out, we're playing the same format [in all 3 tournaments NC18 WNL6 and WPL2] which is League stage into Knockout Stage.

Making match ups random, using pick night system or automating in custom ways just sorts out how the FORMAT is carried out. Explained why this way of sorting up matches is NOT EFFICIENT with this 6 week lenght league because having only top 4 on KS means you can't drop many points. So Turkey 1 is gonna likely have to win 5-6 matches extremely harder than other teams that will qualify. The situation is not fair for them and probably won't be equal between most of the teams.

As I said it's done already and just wanted to remark that if any admin in the future uses this pick night system, the tournament league should've been longer, allowing teams that securance gap in case they lose some matches, so that they could actually have an easier way-back to top of the table.

 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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Any team at the top of the league will have to win 5 or so matches to have a chance. Any team that wins a few matches will end up with tough opponents at any stage in the league. The only way to get easy matches is to lose which as you state means you are much less likely to get into the KO rounds. Don't see any problem here, beyond pick night being open to people throwing or feeding which is a risk we chose to take.

edit: if you're just saying a longer league would be better and more precise, yes it would be, but we didn't want another mega NC.
 

Menethil

Baron
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Time will tell... I wısh we could have avoid rematches cause after playing vs Spain, UK1 and Germany there is still 3 weeks and there is Poland waiting for us. And then we will start over in next weeks. I know everyone wants cool matchups and no stumps but people are exhausted to  play this game seriously 6 week in a row and then 2 more important matches... I am sure you guys understand us aswell.
We believe you did your best but it took 5 week for you to start this tournament plus you didnt decide about the situation of alliances. When we were in 4th week of training BeNe was still waiting for your answer and i guess thats why they dont try hard in this tournament. That is on admin team unfortunately. Thank you for taking your time and answering and listening our problems. Good luck to everyone!
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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Do agree it would be good to avoid any rematches and it's not beyond changing, but that shouldn't be up to me (I would like to not play russia or turkey again also!!)
 

Tardet

French Toast
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NW
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I also think we should avoid rematch to a certain extent if possible, not quite sure how you can make a rule for that without ruining the whole concept of the pick-night but it's worth thinking about it.

I also fully understand how it's problematic for you guys and I am glad you raised the issue. I can't quite explain the delay at the beginning of the tournament but what's done is done. I'd rather focus on trying to make the best out of the current ladder stage and see if we can find a solution for the following issues which makes a maximum of people happy.
 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
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Jurgen said:
Hey. Since Gibby was ignoring me all this time, I've decided to openly declare that Ukrainian team has problems with the players, and I plan to either giving the captain role to another player, or leaving the tournament entirely. As I do not have any back up players.
Everyone knows that I assembled this team from scratch, I even found Lares somewhere, an old star Warband player, but he doesnt play anymore. I made a team out of nothing. Not having experienced players. But even inexperienced players may not come to the match, and this is an auto-defeat for us.

The BeNe team, they did not do anything to get enough players, did not even have to look for them, and still they were allowed to create an alliance.

I wrote about the problem a week ago, before the match with America, but I was ignored. They spent a whole week to give me a negative answer: I asked to give me ONE Russian player to continue, because none of the other countries have players: Bulgaria, Serbia, Belarus, nobody. If the administration allows us to take only one Russian person in the team, I will continue. I am the only one active player in this team, thus I have no co-captain. I do everything myself.

I apologize to the Czech team. If we decide this before our Saturday match with her, I will be glad. If not, you can not do anything.
We are prepared to allow your team several alliances to ensure you get enough players for matches, but I cannot allow you to have a Russian player in your team. It's true that this NC is perhaps not as serious as past ones - largely due to the game being taken less seriously by most players due to the shrinking playerbase - but that does not mean that it is not a Nation's Cup. There is already a Russian team, so your team cannot have a Russian player. That is how it has always been. I am aware that nobody from Bulgaria is playing for you, and your players from Belarus are not coming either, which is why we have allowed Pusiak to join your team. We are happy to help out your team by allowing you these other alliances, but it just isn't an option for you to have a Russian player on your team.
 
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