[NC2013] Rules and Regulations

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Killfacer

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I'm afraid I don't see round delaying as a particularly horrific thing, though perhaps in the future we should investigate just how effective it is. As Unicorn pointed out, the main problem here is the extremely disappointing and offensive language used by some players. Honestly it's just sad to lamely insult each the opposition in game.

I'll discuss it with Rayden but as it's the first real case of it happening no further action will be taken as Fehnor has stated.

Beyond that, shut up and stop spamming. I'll be deleting any further posts about this, if you have a serious question or comment then throw me a PM or speak to me on steam.
 

Juve

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I know this discussion is quickly becoming redundant and silly, but I'd like to give my 2 cents. (I hope you don't see this as spam, Deacon).

I knew this would be a problem after Canada had a training match against Czech Republic wherein the Czech team intentionally drawed a few rounds. I was angry about it at the time, but based on the rules it's the most effective way to win with home/away.

Can't hold it against teams to play to win based on the rules of the tournament, nor can you blame the admins for not forseeing problems like this; however, that's not to say I think it's a good way to compete with Warband. When teams can win matches by focusing on drawing rounds for 4 rounds, then (more or less) easily winning the other 4 rounds on their own server, it takes away from the gameplay itself. It no longer becomes about which team is better at playing Warband, but rather more about which team can draw rounds more effectively on the other team's server.

To respond to Deacon's thinking round delaying isn't harmful, I think he has underestimated how effective some teams can be with drawing rounds. It's obviously not very problematic for EU vs. EU matches, which is why I think drawed rounds standing as such are okay without cross-continental play. Without server swapping, drawed rounds don't offer any advantage, so no one intentionally draws rounds. On the other hand, when it comes to NA vs. EU using home/away, drawed rounds on the opposing team's server offers a huge advantage, which pretty much defeats the purpose of something like a Nations Cup (i.e., which country is best at Warband).

Home/away is as balanced as cross-continental matches can get at this time, but it's definitely not balanced. Clearly it's not easy to incorporate multiple continents into tournaments like this, but it is a bit disappointing that NA (as the minority) is shafted time and time again. I know the admins for NC2013 have tried as hard as they could to prevent NA being disadvantaged, but--as we've seen with Canada not moving on from their group due to round win totals, and now this with USA--it's more or less inevitable.
 

Catholic

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Deacon - relax. We're not spamming. We're genuinely trying to improve future NCs. It's the 'Rules and Regulations' thread and we're talking about rules, why are you flipping a ****?

As for my 2 cents:

- Round ties are replayed.
That's how NA deals with it. This could work in EU too.
 

TheBard

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If I recall correctly: This rule was in effect for one or two tournaments and was not very popular.
 

Killfacer

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The whole thing got dropped as an idea because in single continent competition it wasn't really a major issues. Perhaps it ought to be reinstated, though I think the problem could also be solved with rule and map changes. I'll consider the problem further though more input is welcome.

DeaconFlipping****.com/explanation - You seen people calling each other deformed and generally abusing each other above? I'm happy with this discussion though.

 

BlackTide

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HeroofSovngarde said:
So,as far as i learnt from what i read is that Americans are mad because the Turks couldn't play on 200 ping,so they used their brains and created a tactic,won the game.Some guys in the TR Team sweared/used bad words after the game,i don't know why they behaved like this,but this is not positive for the NC2013.And because of a reason that i do not know,Germans are mad and crying too.
They used their brains,yes they behaved bad but they won it right?
Americans,stop crying about games,eat your hamburgers and bring democracy to world pls
As for Germans,good luck against the Turkish team :wink:
Those are the kinds of statements that we're trying to avoid.

I think that a serious issue is that in the unlikely situation that another NC comes about, there is a serious possibility of this delaying tactic catching on. Should this be the case then we might actually see matches ending 0-0 or 1-0 which would be ridiculous. In my view, you join a tournament to play and not stretch technicalities. That's a fundamental part of having an enjoyable and fair environment. In the future I feel that a separate set of rules should be made applicable to cross-continental matches, using the same rules obviously disadvantages one side or results in the discontentment of one or more parties. 
 

Truktos

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Just saw the screens and the arguement about it. I'm sorry to hear that my teammates insulted and I'm sure Rayden'll do everything to prevent it for the next times, but the thing about intentionally drawing is certainly a nonsense. I dont know how it happened, but in the screens I saw, there was a draw on the spawn that played on the Hungarian server, wherein the ping were obviously in favor of the Turkish team. There are certainly ways to lure your opponent into a fight, such as playing more aggressive. I've played against opponents which commited suicides etc to prevent the flag from spawning and everytime they tried we found a way around. That strategy wasnt that effective against good opponents

I've also heard that Ottoman wasnt allowed to play on the NA server due to his low ping. I'm sorry if I missed a rule that prevents him from playing, but it sounded like a rule abuse to me. :roll:

Edit: Just checked the rules one more time and I saw nothing about not allowing players on a server due to low ping. It certainly is a rule abuse.
 

Juve

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_Toi_ said:
I've also heard that Ottoman wasnt allowed to play on the NA server due to his low ping. I'm sorry if I missed a rule that prevents him from playing, but it sounded like a rule abuse to me. :roll:

Edit: Just checked the rules one more time and I saw nothing about not allowing players on a server due to low ping. It certainly is a rule abuse.
It's not in the rules, but as far as I know it's assumed that using the home/away system, teams will find servers that are as fair as possible on both ends. Ottoman playing on an NA server with significantly lower ping than anyone else on the other team's server makes for a rather unfair advantage.

It's more about keeping the teams' pings as fair and equal as possible than it is about preventing him from playing. How did Ottoman have such lower ping, anyway?
 

Truktos

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Juvenile said:
_Toi_ said:
I've also heard that Ottoman wasnt allowed to play on the NA server due to his low ping. I'm sorry if I missed a rule that prevents him from playing, but it sounded like a rule abuse to me. :roll:

Edit: Just checked the rules one more time and I saw nothing about not allowing players on a server due to low ping. It certainly is a rule abuse.
It's not in the rules, but as far as I know it's assumed that using the home/away system, teams will find servers that are as fair as possible on both ends. Ottoman playing on an NA server with significantly lower ping than anyone else on the other team's server makes for a rather unfair advantage.

It's more about keeping the teams' pings as fair and equal as possible than it is about preventing him from playing. How did Ottoman have such lower ping, anyway?
To your question, he lives in France.

It didnt seem me fair that he wasnt allowed on the American server with his 115 ping, when Bohemond played with 105 ping on the Hungarian server. :roll:



 

Juve

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Looking at the screens, I think I understand why.

When you played Central/Turkey servers, Ottoman wasn't allowed to play because he had 115 on Central while lowest USA ping on Turkey was 145. When you switched to Eastern/Hungary on the map switch, the lowest USA ping on Hungary was 104 (Bohemond) while on Eastern Ottoman had 79.

You're comparing Ottoman's ping on Central to Bohemond's ping on Hungary, which were servers played on different maps. Had both maps been done with Central/Hungary, I don't think Ottoman playing would have been a big deal.

Also, a Frenchman playing for the Turks? wut
 

Truktos

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Juvenile said:
Looking at the screens, I think I understand why.

When you played Central/Turkey servers, Ottoman wasn't allowed to play because he had 115 on Central while lowest USA ping on Turkey was 145. When you switched to Eastern/Hungary on the map switch, the lowest USA ping on Hungary was 104 (Bohemond) while on Eastern Ottoman had 79.

You're comparing Ottoman's ping on Central to Bohemond's ping on Hungary, which were servers played on different maps. Had both maps been done with Central/Hungary, I don't think Ottoman playing would have been a big deal.
My point is Bohemond played on both spawns while Ottoman played on neither. There were a fairer solution. I agree that it is not a big deal but once people start to make up rules, it might continue. :roll: If the intention is really improving quality for the next tournaments, people shouldnt ignore that.

He is a Turk who lives in France. It surely isnt that hard to understand. There are lots of Turkish people live in Europe. Around 3 or 4 million in Germany for an example.
 

KoA John

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So I can call my friend born in the USA who lives in turkey to play for USA then? (A bit extreme I know, but its kind of the same thing)
 
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_Toi_ said:
Juvenile said:
Looking at the screens, I think I understand why.

When you played Central/Turkey servers, Ottoman wasn't allowed to play because he had 115 on Central while lowest USA ping on Turkey was 145. When you switched to Eastern/Hungary on the map switch, the lowest USA ping on Hungary was 104 (Bohemond) while on Eastern Ottoman had 79.

You're comparing Ottoman's ping on Central to Bohemond's ping on Hungary, which were servers played on different maps. Had both maps been done with Central/Hungary, I don't think Ottoman playing would have been a big deal.
My point is Bohemond played on both spawns while Ottoman played on neither. There were a fairer solution. I agree that it is not a big deal but once people start to make up rules, it might continue. :roll: If the intention is really improving quality for the next tournaments, people shouldnt ignore that.

He is a Turk who lives in France. It surely isnt that hard to understand. There are lots of Turkish people live in Europe. Around 3 or 4 million in Germany for an example.
I live in Boston, US, not in France. Also, if someone were to record, on the Hungary match, my internet became crappy, and I had a 200 ping for about half of the match there. So while my base ping was 104 or so, I was playing most of the Hungary part at 200 ping or so.

Regardless, Deacon said drop it so let us drop it. I just wanted to clear my name.
 

Shemaforash

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If I recall right some previous nations cup a Ukrainian team had a player living in USA. Nobody knew about this so they played like usual until USA match. They didn't show that player when checking pings to make the match fair and thus there was no knowledge of him living in the USA. He was not allowed to play in the match, why? Because he never showed the advantage Ukraine had. My point is that Ottoman has showed that he lives in France the past nations cups as well as IN this cup, therefore you shouldn't be able to complain about it.

Hardly an argument to say
Juvenile said:
Also, a Frenchman playing for the Turks? wut
 

Truktos

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John7 said:
So I can call my friend born in the USA who lives in turkey to play for USA then? (A bit extreme I know, but its kind of the same thing)
Sure you can, if you inform everyone about it. Captain Lust, who is the captain of team UK, lives in Turkey for an example. That doesnt make him Turk, does it?

@Bohemond: I meant, Ottoman lives in France. While playing inter continental everyone has spikes, so I think it is better that we look at everyones base pings. By the way I'm not trying to tarnish your name, I dont think you were the one who decided it and I apologize, if you understood it that way.
 

Juve

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Shemaforash said:
If I recall right some previous nations cup a Ukrainian team had a player living in USA. Nobody knew about this so they played like usual until USA match. They didn't show that player when checking pings to make the match fair and thus there was no knowledge of him living in the USA. He was not allowed to play in the match, why? Because he never showed the advantage Ukraine had. My point is that Ottoman has showed that he lives in France the past nations cups as well as IN this cup, therefore you shouldn't be able to complain about it.

Hardly an argument to say
Juvenile said:
Also, a Frenchman playing for the Turks? wut
I was just unclear about Ottoman, not saying he had no right to play for the Turkish team. I do think it's a bit silly, but it doesn't really matter.
 

Mad_Dawg

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Quite frankly team captains were left to decide the server situations for home/away, ergo, I didn't need a rule and frankly shouldn't have had such a fight on my hands to try and get a fair match.

As for Bohemond's ping = Otto's, it's explained here.  Please reread.
Juvenile said:
Looking at the screens, I think I understand why.

When you played Central/Turkey servers, Ottoman wasn't allowed to play because he had 115 on Central while lowest USA ping on Turkey was 145. When you switched to Eastern/Hungary on the map switch, the lowest USA ping on Hungary was 104 (Bohemond) while on Eastern Ottoman had 79.

You're comparing Ottoman's ping on Central to Bohemond's ping on Hungary, which were servers played on different maps. Had both maps been done with Central/Hungary, I don't think Ottoman playing would have been a big deal.

If ever a home/away is setup in the future there needs to be more specifics to the rules as well as the proper infrastructure.  Three German servers and not a single French?  The lack of server options and the fact that ping was more pertinent to NA teams left the purden on there team captains to try and find servers for themselves.
 
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I disagree with a lot of what mad dawg has said in this thread and a lot of others; particularly him being critical of admins etc whom i know put a lot of effort into getting servers so that everyone can have as even ping an possible, its not an easy job at all considering they have no money and then considering USA actually had a ping advantage over turkey its actually pretty rich coming from them as well. Its hard to run these tournaments and they put a lot of time into it.

Whilst i dont have a problem with the way turkey went about it, for me they should try their hardest to win regardless of how people feel about it, otherwise we may as well all go play persistent world and pretend to be brave merchants. That said it does look like a tactic that will ruin future EU vs NA match ups and is therefore something that needs to be addressed, im not sure anyone has suggested anything similar already but perhaps having a set of maps dedicated to NA vs EU matches, might work. Maps such as sandi's are much harder to draw on, if we had a pool of difficult-to-draw-maps maybe 4-6 of them it could make things a lot easier.

Im still surprised that the tactic proved so effective and im not convinced that it can't be countered with tactics alone, but then again i haven't fought against it yet.

Also how is ping more pertinent to NA teams?