Native Completed [NASTe] North American Small Teams Seasonal Ladder [Season 2]

[Mr.X]

What people seem to be missing here is that Rhade's and Vanidar's ping did not go high above 100 until the second map, or at least did not stay above 110 for a distinguishable period of time (could have spiked for a second or so). I don't entirely remember what round their ping skyrocketed to 150, but it wasn't immediately at the beginning of the second map, and it wasn't at all in the first.

150 ping is indeed crippling when you are used to 50 or less. Depending on how early in the map that occurred I would say Balion could redo the map, but redoing the entire match is unnecessary. If ping was such a huge issue at the time why not sub in Search? If I remember correctly he was in spec the whole game, unless he left without me noticing.

I realize he may be rusty, at least I haven't seen him play in a while, but I don't think he would be on the roster if anyone thought that would be an issue. If Rhade or Van had left, it may have freed up the others connection; seeing as they live in the same apartment (whatever it is) and probably use the same connection. This may not have helped, but it seems logical, and no one tried it.

Forgetting that match I think there should be a rule to allow a substitution during a map if a member has ping problems. If it is worthy of cancelling an entire match over, it is certainly worthy of being remedied. It should be pretty simple to see if someone has an abnormal ping. Lets face it, it is a small community. There simply needs to be an agreements on what is problematic. I think the captains of each team should discuss with the admins until an agreement is made on how much ping difference there can be, and if there are exceptions. Most people here have played quite a bit, so it shouldn't be hard to come to an understanding (hopefully).

First off:

[quote author=Me]
I can't necessarily warn the next person who disputes the admins call on the BkS/Balion match, but I can say that I won't give any sort of leniency when it comes to their matches. Lust, drop it. You can bring up points about the rules, but don't dispute the match.
[/quote]

Redo the match or have your challenge cancelled.

Secondly. There isn't really a need for discussion. If a player has abnormally high ping than it's unsuitable playing conditions.
Also
[quote author=Rules that the teams clearly need to read more carefully]
Teams may only substitute players during matches between maps or with consent from the opposing team's captain or if a player unexpectedly loses connection/crashes and is unable to rejoin promptly.
[/quote]

Subbing is already in place. I honestly doubt a team captain would say no to allowing a normal pinging player to sub in for someone who's clearly having ping trouble.

 

[Rhade]

Stay classy, Ron.

I said we were having issues both maps.

Mad -- I'm looking at Friday at around 7 PM CST. I will check my ping to BkS and Balion Friday morning and afternoon, and will try to secure Wappaw for a back-up server this time, just in case. Does that sound acceptable?

 

[Mr.X]

Stay classy, Ron.

I said we were having issues both maps.

Mad -- I'm looking at Friday at around 7 PM CST. I will check my ping to BkS and Balion Friday morning and afternoon, and will try to secure Wappaw for a back-up server this time, just in case. Does that sound acceptable?

P-****ing-M!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MrNomNom]

Also, LAG accepts for Sunday! Time still being worked out, probably around 4 central.

 

[Outlawed]

Hmm.
Why would you replay the whole thing?
If indeed BkS was having issues since the start, they should have said so.
That being said, if they didn't one assumes things were fine.

If they started having issues in the middle of that round, they could have just said, 'guys, we are spiking'. I do realize that they thought they couldn't do that, but is that Balion's fault?
I think 2nd map replayed, first map kept. But since an opinion has been already made/agreed upon, I just thought I'd stay part of this ****storm and throw 2 cents.

 

[Orion]

Hmm.
Why would you replay the whole thing?
If indeed BkS was having issues since the start, they should have said so.
That being said, if they didn't one assumes things were fine.

If they started having issues in the middle of that round, they could have just said, 'guys, we are spiking'. I do realize that they thought they couldn't do that, but is that Balion's fault?
I think 2nd map replayed, first map kept. But since an opinion has been already made/agreed upon, I just thought I'd stay part of this ****storm and throw 2 cents.

Aside from the predictable "it doesn't involve you, bugger off" statement which I will omit, I'll point out that you aren't taking into consideration all factors. First, there was a violation regarding the server settings on the first map. This went undisputed, and I most likely would have left things alone had that been it. However, a dispute was raised in the second map due to an unsuitable server. Because the match itself was disputed, and there were grounds for invalidating both maps (disputed or not), the whole match must be replayed.

Very minor rule violations that go undisputed are ignored except when the match is disputed for other reasons. Then they are reconsidered and factored into the ruling. It's a case of "don't rock the boat." You can rock it a little bit, and nothing happens, but if you tip it over you drown.

[Edit]

I've decided that instead of replacing admins, I'll add at least one new admin. Perhaps two. We'll see.

Once an hour is decided for the LES vs. LAG match, I'll update the second post.

 

[Outlawed]

Maybe have certain distinct rules that warrant a replay if broken/infringed?
Its hard for teams to know what and whatnot to expect if they break a rule (most of the time they wont notice though)

 

[Orion]

It's safe to assume that breaking a rule results in a warning. What these warnings mean is going to be handled on a case-by-case basis by the admins.

Rather than telling you what you can expect to happen, I'll tell you what you can expect not to happen.

You can expect cancellations/forfeitures not to happen for a single rule violation.
You can expect loss of rank not to happen unless you have many previous violations.
You can expect single, isolated violations to not have any serious impact on your ladder experience.

Oh, I suppose I can throw out one thing you can expect.

You can expect rematches as the method of dispute resolution in most cases. It's most fair to play matches again than fiddle with artificial wins/losses.

 

[Outlawed]

Makes sense.
*carries on*

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Sorry if i came off wrong Rhade, but I simply needed to post something regarding actual ping values because it seemed like that was important to some people. I realize ping spikes are much worse than a stagnant high ping, was just reporting what I saw.

I have no problem with facing you guys again, but in all other past competitive gaming experiences I've had I have never seen a match canceled due to ping spikes with players. I realize this is more "friendly-competitive" but still, if this situation was presented to any other gaming league I've done they would simply laugh at the concept of it all. In those it was always the team's responsibility to bring enough players so that in the case of bad ping or emergency they would have backups. If they couldn't play enough players the whole match it was a forfeit, simple as that. The roster sizes for this tournament/ladder are about 5 smaller, so that isn't entirely applicable. It is just the standpoint I come from with regards to my background.

Either way we will still play each other in the future, and I look forward to the challenge.

 

[Orion]

I would be running larger teams if we had a larger North American player base. I'm still waiting on Wappaw, GK, and KoA to register teams. I've also heard KM (from WFaS) might make a team. If all of these teams signed up, we would have a respectable number of teams (12 or 13, if Wappaw put forth 2 teams like they intended).

If these teams sign up and if everyone sticks around for the second season, and if we get a nice holiday sale to bring in a fresh batch of players or whatnot, I'll increase the team sizes to have matches of 7v7 and rosters up to 10 or 11. It's a big "if," but I'm pleased with the activity on the ladder right now. It's not forced, nor is it lethargic. It's just a reason to scrim again.

 

[Morii]

blabla

****ing M!!!!!!!!!!

+1, he's such a butt.

 

[Outlawed]

Hmm. I've PM'd SilyWly for times and he never replied back.
Mad_Dawg has the pm's I believe. Please reply to our challenge a couple of days before the day that we offered so we can tell our guys to make time.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

Hmm. I've PM'd SilyWly for times and he never replied back.
Mad_Dawg has the pm's I believe. Please reply to our challenge a couple of days before the day that we offered so we can tell our guys to make time.

Confirm, waiting on Wily's reply.

 

[Calamity]

Hmm. I've PM'd SilyWly for times and he never replied back.
Mad_Dawg has the pm's I believe. Please reply to our challenge a couple of days before the day that we offered so we can tell our guys to make time.

I'll let him know.

I knew I shouldn't have made him captain. Slacker 

 

[Orion]

Wily's trying to see if the times are suitable for his guys. That's the reason for the delay.

Also, about this match...

Ra can't actually challenge wK, because Ra sits higher on the ladder. It wasn't made clear to me which team challenged which, but I hope it was wK -> Ra, rather than the other way around.

 

[findecanno]

Wily's trying to see if the times are suitable for his guys. That's the reason for the delay.

Also, about this match...

Ra can't actually challenge wK, because Ra sits higher on the ladder. It wasn't made clear to me which team challenged which, but I hope it was wK -> Ra, rather than the other way around.

Wk did challenge us. S'all good.

 

[Catholic]

I really should double check...
but 8:30 est saturday for GOOD match works for us.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

Also, about this match...

Ra can't actually challenge wK, because Ra sits higher on the ladder. It wasn't made clear to me which team challenged which, but I hope it was wK -> Ra, rather than the other way around.

It was a legal challenge.

 

[Outlawed]

Please replace 5arge with Jesse on the Ra-ster.
Thanks.

wK can't make the weekend, so we are still negotiating.