Native Completed [NASTe] North American Small Teams Seasonal Ladder [Season 2 Finals]

[Orion]

Some of you may be unaware about an issue that the NASTe admins are currently facing regarding a challenge between Black Shields and Wappaw. It's an issue that the admins have foreseen, but we never developed a method for handling it should it arise. What we have developed is a system which allows for disputes to be handled on a case-by-case basis. We have also developed precedent with previous disputes which establishes the philosophy of the ladder. That philosophy is simple, and it is like so:

It is better for matches to be played than for matches to not be played.

This has been the overall purpose of NASTe since the planning period before Season 1. The ladder was started in the hopes of revitalizing the NA scrim scene, to keep it from vanishing altogether. Season 1 succeeded in doing that, but this season has been different. With changes to match format and a new admin roster, it seems that some teams have lost the enthusiasm they had in the first season. A lack of enthusiasm is to be expected, because novelty always wears off. I am not terribly disappointed with the ladder, but I am disappointed that certain teams - tired of the ladder as it is - would seek to use it as a tool for trolling.

This is where the issue between Black Shields and Wappaw stands. Black Shields showed at a scheduled time with sufficient players (5) to complete their challenge against Wappaw. Likewise, Wappaw showed with 7 players at the appropriate time. By all rights, this match should have been played. It was not. Wappaw, under the pretense of wanting to face Black Shields with a full team of 6 players, refused to play the match at the scheduled time. It must be made clear that the choice of playing with only 5 players is the prerogative of the captain with only 5 players. The opposing team cannot make the choice for them. The opposing captain's only choice then is to match numbers or play with their full team, both of which are allowed under the rules.

However, I said "pretense." While there is a rule regarding 5-man teams, there is no rule against Wappaw's other position. This is what the admins predicted would happen, but which we never developed specific rules to handle. Here's my brief chat log with Wappaw's team captain, with the real issue bolded:

隐藏

7:23 PM - Pizza: Hey
7:23 PM - Pizza: Mr NASTe admin?
7:23 PM - Mac: ?
7:29 PM - Pizza: BkS has 5
7:30 PM - Pizza: We don't want to play 5v5
7:30 PM - Pizza: Or 5v6
7:30 PM - Pizza: We can just reschudle?
7:30 PM - Mac: =/
7:30 PM - Mac: I'd recommend the 5v5
7:30 PM - Mac: so it gets played
7:30 PM - Pizza: The guys don't want to
7:30 PM - Pizza: Something about them not liking BkS
7:31 PM - Pizza: So why throw them a bone
7:31 PM - Pizza: etc
7:31 PM - Pizza: But anyway
7:31 PM - Mac: if your team doesn't want to play another because they don't LIKE them
7:31 PM - Mac: that's purposeful delaying and dodging
7:31 PM - Pizza: We have more than 6
7:31 PM - Pizza: We'd like to play it 6v6
7:31 PM - Mac: I don't see why you don't want to play against BkS when they're down a man
7:32 PM - Pizza: It's not me specifically
7:32 PM - Mac: ok, but you're the captain
7:32 PM - Pizza: lol
7:32 PM - Mac: you're responsible for your team
7:32 PM - Pizza: In that sense I see how you're looking at it
7:32 PM - Pizza: either way
7:32 PM - Pizza: The final aren't set until all cahllenges are settled right?
7:32 PM - Mac: True, but if you have all of the players you need for a match and you call it off because your players "don't like BkS"
7:32 PM - Mac: that's definite grounds for a dispute
7:33 PM - Pizza: Not sure what you want me to do
7:33 PM - Pizza: This is supposed to be 6v6
7:33 PM - Pizza: We are just rescheduling
7:33 PM - Mac: the rules say they can play a man down if they need to
7:33 PM - Pizza: So as to allow them to get all 6
7:33 PM - Mac: Rhade's telling me he wants to play
7:34 PM - Pizza: My team is already gone

Let me make this clear, so that everyone understands it and so I don't have to repeat myself.

Deliberately dodging matches - especially because of your contempt for another team - is trolling, and will not be tolerated on this ladder.

Refusing to play a match when all of the pieces of the puzzle are in place goes against the very philosophy of the ladder, and the reason for doing so in this case only proves malicious intent. The admins have voted, and the majority has decided that in this case, Black Shields will be afforded a default victory on the grounds that their opponent intentionally dodged them for the purpose of trolling, and forfeit their match by quitting.

That is all.

 

[Fehnor]

Steam chat log makes me hungry.

 

[Orion]

Ordo Renascendi Aquilae has been removed for inactivity.

West Knights will be dropping off of the ladder prior to the season finals.

Wappaw has announced their intentions of resigning from the ladder as well.

 

[RoBo_CoP]

 

[KoA John]

ORA shouldve been removed a month ago

Better late than never I guess

 

[Rhade]

they mad

 

[Tactics]

A strong clan leader would have nipped that nonsense in the butt straight away.  While there may not be a rule about lack of integrity, it is something that is presupposed. Wappaw shouldn't be permitted to withdraw, they should be withdrawn. Nobody loves BkS (except Mok), but that steam chat log is a sorry and pathetic thing indeed.

-

Is this left-over hatred having something to do with TLB_Kush who changed his name when he joined Wappaw?

 

[RoBo_CoP]

Is this left-over hatred having something to do with TLB_Kush who changed his name when he joined Wappaw?

POMs are on the roster. Not Kush.

 

[Green Knight]

While there may not be a rule about lack of integrity, it is something that is presupposed. Wappaw shouldn't be permitted to withdraw, they should be withdrawn. Nobody loves BkS (except Mok), but that steam chat log is a sorry and pathetic thing indeed.

-

Is this left-over hatred having something to do with TLB_Kush who changed his name when he joined Wappaw?

What a load of horse****. You're telling me that that chat log is enough to have a team forced off the ladder?! They were awarded a loss, I think that's enough. And you talk of integrity being something that is presupposed in the WB community? Please. I've seen more integrity among kindergarten students. I wasn't involved in this matchup at all,  and I'm not trying to start anything here. And i'm sure not gonnna waste my time on trollworlds backing up this post should you decide to pick it apart and proceed to tell me what kind of human being I am based on some lines of text on the internet. But I can say this much:

-Wappaw has a much better record than most of the other teams on this ladder for having 6 guys ready to play on time.
-Wappaw has rescheduled for other clans at least once before because they didn't have enough guys to field a team. No complaints.
-With all the flaming (and real trolling) I've seen going on in this community in the two years I've been around, Cheese's 3 lines about "the guys not liking BkS, so why throw them a bone" hardly counts as offensive or trollish, especially since he was just relaying the opinions of his teammates.

The match probably should have happened at that time, no doubt. It would have been nice for Wappaw to have been given a pass once, considering it has been more than willing to do it for other teams in the past. With all the delayed matches and not showing up and teams getting locked in challenges for 3 weeks at a time, this NASTe season has been plagued with a so-called "lack of integrity". It seems Orion (and perhaps some other admins) has chosen to make an example of Wappaw. Well, that's his (their) prerogative. I know what Orion is prepared to do to defend himself in a taleworlds thread, and engaging in that would be about as pleasurable as a colonoscopic polypectomy. So that's fine, it is what it is.

Sure, I'm biased, but I've known Cheese for awhile and frankly he's one of the more upright, non-trollish, and magnanimous people in this community. Go ahead and make your judgements; it's a testament to your character if you think you can make those kinds of calls based on limited information about an event you weren't even privy to.

 

[Orion]

Kind of backed into a corner with this one. Either the admins let Wappaw get away with screwing another team out of their time, entertainment, and reasonable expectations, setting a precedent that tells all teams it's OK to do so in the future, or we do something about teams pulling **** moves. Even the admins that voted against a default victory remarked that this was a **** move against BkS, and I don't think anyone would disagree on that point. So what do we do about? Letting it slide sends the message that it's OK, and that's unacceptable, because then it becomes a tool to be used against teams you don't like. If it's any consolation, removal from the ladder was never even considered. Stripping Wappaw of their rank was brought up but never given any support. A warning was deemed too lax for what seemed a straight-forward attempt at pissing off another team.

I don't particularly like posting Steam logs, and if I have to I try to keep it relevant to the matter at hand. Nothing in that log can really be called personal or private information. As a team's representative and leader, speaking in that capacity, you have to realize that what you say is a matter of concern to the ladder. It's not private. Ladder business is relevant to all parties on the ladder, and will be made part of the public record. If Pizza told me anything that was personal or confidential then it wouldn't have been posted.

Nobody is happy about this (BkS would have preferred to play in the first place, and Rhade's the first to tell you that he doesn't like autowins), but this was crossing the line.

 

[Orion]

Alright then. Yesterday was the final day to issue challenges, and it was the last day of the season. Challenges that were issued prior to the end of the season that have not yet been completed must be cancelled or completed, hopefully within a week. BkS vs. BAD will be going on this weekend, and Gingervitis has asked to cancel their challenge against LAG. Oddly enough, neither of these matches will influence the finals either way.

If you guys prefer, because the format for this season's final tournament is a 4-team tournament, we can just call these two matches the first tier of the tournament. They're set up appropriately for the seeds you would all be given. Team 1 fights Team 4, and Team 2 fights Team 3. The winners fight for 1st/2nd, and the losers fight for 3rd/4th. You can also decide to play these matches first and then begin the tournament normally.

 

[Rhade]

I don't like that. When we beat Balion, we'll take #1 spot, knocking them down to #2, which will set the final match ups #1 seed vs #4 seed, at which point we will no longer be seeing balion in the first round.

 

[Orion]

Fair enough. Finish these challenges, then, or request cancellation (Gingervitis vs. LAG has been cancelled).

 

[Mad_Dawg]

Fair enough. Finish these challenges, then, or request cancellation (Gingervitis vs. LAG has been cancelled).

We're still on.  I also would prefer this a standard season match.

Also, the challenge was placed before the deadline so obviously we cannot alter "RULES".

 

[Mad_Dawg]

Match Results : BAD vs BKS

Map 1 - Set 1
BAD = 4 : BKS = 0

隐藏: Screenshot

Map 1 - Set 2
BAD = 1 : BKS = 1

隐藏: Screenshot

Map 2 - Set 1
BAD = 2 : BKS = 2

隐藏: Screenshot

I forgot this one. 
Z3ro as Admin can verify.

Map 2 - Set 2
BAD = 3 : BKS = 0

隐藏: Screenshot

 

[Nevino]

Match Results : BAD vs BKS

Map 1 - Set 1
BAD = 4 : BKS = 0

隐藏: Screenshot

Map 1 - Set 2
BAD = 1 : BKS = 1

隐藏: Screenshot

Map 2 - Set 1
BAD = 2 : BKS = 2

隐藏: Screenshot

I forgot this one. 
Z3ro as Admin can verify.

Map 2 - Set 2
BAD = 3 : BKS = 0

隐藏: Screenshot

how do a couple of these scores make any sense?

1+1 does not equal 4
neither does 3+0

does mad dawg need to go back to school? 

 

[Rurin]

Possibly they were recording draws as a round, which I assume is correct?

 

[Mr.X]

No. after a certain point (like when bad takes 1 round on the second half of map 1), it's impossible for BkS to win the map so they just give them the map

 

[POM_Zero]

Match Results : BAD vs BKS

Map 1 - Set 1
BAD = 4 : BKS = 0

隐藏: Screenshot

Map 1 - Set 2
BAD = 1 : BKS = 1

隐藏: Screenshot

Map 2 - Set 1
BAD = 2 : BKS = 2

隐藏: Screenshot

I forgot this one. 
Z3ro as Admin can verify.

Map 2 - Set 2
BAD = 3 : BKS = 0

隐藏: Screenshot

how do a couple of these scores make any sense?

1+1 does not equal 4
neither does 3+0

does mad dawg need to go back to school? 

First before I take you back to school, how many rounds does it take out 8 in to win ?

 

[Orion]

Dem finals.

4 teams, basic bracket, you know the drill. Here's the lineup for the first tier:

Team 1: Balions Against Dueling
Versus
Team 4: Black Shields

Team 2: Loud And Garbage
Versus
Team 3: Gingervitis

Top seed takes the defender position. The winners of these two fights will face each other in the championship match, while the losers will fight for third place.