Native Completed [NASTe] North American Small Teams Seasonal Ladder [Season 2 Finals]

[WilySly]

There are quite a few maps that are already skewed towards one spawn or the other.  Random Plains is one of the few maps that's straightforward and presents a reasonable chance at equality.

If we tried to make it so that a team could choose "hilly" or "flat," how do we ensure that our definitions of those terms match?  Spend another 3 weeks describing in minutiae every possible example of a hill?

No thanks

Edit: Marnid beat me to it

 

[KoA John]

Its already fairly unbalanced because with rerolls you get to pretty much already pick exactly what you want and how you want it to a certain degree

I can choose to give my team a large hill while giving the other team a small valley or give my team trees etc

 

[MrNomNom]

The randomness of random plains spices up a scrim!

Its already fairly unbalanced because with rerolls you get to pretty much already pick exactly what you want and how you want it to a certain degree

Only three rerolls though.

Personally I think the no cliff texture rule is a little silly, and that each scrim should be handled case by case. Obviously huge mountains will not be played on, but I've been in scrims where the map was rerolled because of a little cliff texture off to the side.

 

[RoBo_CoP]

Personally I think the no cliff texture rule is a little silly, and that each scrim should be handled case by case. Obviously huge mountains will not be played on, but I've been in scrims where the map was rerolled because of a little cliff texture off to the side.

Once again, disputes could occur.

 

[MrNomNom]

Elaborate.

Or you know, don't.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

Elaborate.

Or you know, don't.

Talk about passive aggressive.  I see you are copying me all over again.

 

[MrNomNom]

Yeah sorry Robro, had a Mad Dawg moment. 

 

[Orion]

I can choose to give my team a large hill while giving the other team a small valley or give my team trees etc

No, you can't. You can get a hill, sure, but if it's a "large" hill then it's going to have the cliff texture, and that's a no-no. It's also pretty damn hard to get advantageous terrain for yourself in 3 rerolls, given the random nature of the map.

 

[KoA John]

We missed our CRAP buddies tonight

 

[Catholic]

We missed our CRAP buddies tonight

Hey guys! Back from a party!

..... oh my. That was today. Wow. I got on to a CRAP member yesterday about please making it and I don't. Agh!

My sincerest apologies. Resched?

 

[KoA John]

No problem

Several of us had our own parties to get to 

Rescheduling is fine

Off to the PMs ! (tomorrow)

 

[Rhade]

There are quite a few maps that are already skewed towards one spawn or the other.  Random Plains is one of the few maps that's straightforward and presents a reasonable chance at equality.

This is actually why we pick it every time. We enjoy maps where both teams have an equal chance. I think we should have more maps that are more balanced, and less "WE WANT PORT ASSAULT INSIDE SPAWN RHODOKS."

 

[Fehnor]

I always thought it was odd PA was on the list of acceptable maps to begin with. The new one is pretty balanced though.

 

[Rhade]

tbh, Village and other maps infer inherent advantages to defenders. It's the natural state of the game, some people feel the need to crutch on it more than others. It's just why I personally enjoy random plains so much, because in essence you're only relying on your skill and teamwork to get you through, not a map-given advantage.

 

[Nevino]

tbh, Village and other maps infer inherent advantages to defenders. It's the natural state of the game, some people feel the need to crutch on it more than others. It's just why I personally enjoy random plains so much, because in essence you're only relying on your skill and teamwork to get you through, not a map-given advantage.

in my opinion though strategy or "map crutching" as you would call it is apart of the game maps may be unbalanced but in maps like port assault you need to rely on the skill of your commander and such almost as much as relying on the skill of your team and to me random plains is really just test of who has better archers and cav 

 

[RoBo_CoP]

in maps like port assault you need to rely on the skill of your commander

That's a good chuckle.

 

[KoA John]

I believe he meant if you get dock spawn

But if the inside spawn then yea... 

 

[Rhade]

you need to rely on the skill of your commander

I've played this game at the highest levels possible, inside NA and on a global stage, and I can't help but kind of laugh. Yes, calling is important, but more often than not it's relatively dry with the same ideas rehashed over and over again. The defender's advantage is so strong in this game that you have to be a moron not to be able to seize a large advantage from inherent defensive maps. Ranged is too strong and movement is too slow, thereby resulting in being forced to traverse through risky positions and put yourself in a bad position just to attempt to advance and put yourself on even footing. The BEST "commander(rofl)" in the world can't take a defender's advantage away from someone who's halfway intelligent.

 

[MrNomNom]

I think I sent a lengthy PM to Marnid a few months back about how in Season 1, the Attacker in Port Assault actually won more often than the Defender.

 

[Rhade]

That's not very good information to judge objectively by. More often than not, clans tried to go port assault and defend against us, but through sheer skill we still would win. That's not to say that, assuming even skill levels, the defender's advantage doesn't exist heavily in this game simply because lower tier clans attempt to crutch on defender-heavy maps.

You're out of your mind if you think that, given equal skill levels, maps like port assault and village are fair for the attacking sides. Period.